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Yes, I was speaking in terms of its function as an art
as it became detached from simply being a vehicle for
religious worship and established itself as a secular
art-form with a broader pallette, that is not saying
that Machaut et al do not fall into the realm of
western music history and are not valid or beautiful.
But this is way beside the point of what I was talking
about in the first place.

--- Dirk Elzinga <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> At 7:51 AM +0000 03/15/02, Jan van Steenbergen
> wrote:
> >  --- Jesse Raccio <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >
> >
> >"Western art music itself has not existed that long
> >unless you can show me otherwise ... But the
> western
> >art form of art music, which is the dominant
> tradition
> >in my society and is the one I myself practice, has
> >really only been around since the Renaissance."
> >
> >It is an old-fashioned idea, that western music
> >history begins with, say, Palestrina or Monteverdi.
> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Renaissance begins
> in
> >1400 rather than in 1500, which would make Western
> art
> >music history 600 years old, instead of 500...
> >Now, you didn't answer my question: what about the
> >others I mentioned? Just a few names: Hildegard von
> >Bingen, Perotinus, Philippe de Vitry, Guillaume de
> >Machaut, Francesco Landini, Mateo da Perugia...
> What
> >about them and numerous others? Aren't their works
> >serious in your opinion, were they just toying
> around
> >in music land?
>
> Perhaps the point was that before this time, music
> was composed for
> specific purposes (part of the liturgy, accompanying
> dance or
> ceremony, etc), while after this time, the idea the
> music can (and
> should) be enjoyed on its own terms became
> increasingly common.
> Certainly the history of instrumental music bears
> this out. I
> certainly don't think that Jesse meant to imply that
> Hildegard,
> Leonin, Perotin, Machaut, et al weren't serious
> composers, and that
> their work isn't worth listening to or studying.
>
> Dirk
> --
> Dirk Elzinga                  [log in to unmask]
>
> Man deth swa he byth thonne he mot swa he wile.
> 'A man does as he is when he can do what he wants.'
>
> - Old English Proverb


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