On Sun, Dec 01, 2002 at 06:28:19PM -0500, Keenan wrote: [snip] > I guess this isn't very clear. But does it need to be? Yes. The various idiolects of English are different enough that comparing a vowel to an English word gives almost no information about its actual value. > Otherwise I'm not touching the claw thread with a barge pole. Not even > to enlighten everyone with the correct pronunciation, which exists in > its purest form in Upstate New York...... ;)) That's precisely the problem. Everyone thinks their idiolect of English has the "correct", "official" (vowel) pronunciation. But none of these "official" vowels are the same. :-) > I mean, after all, I've only just got back. I was never that popular > when I was here and I certainly don't want to piss everyone off by > starting the English pronunciation virus again! :)) [snip] You don't have to. Just take a couple o' hours to learn basic IPA, preferably with recordings so that you can tell what the vowels *really* sound like. And then you can actually talk about vowel pronunciation without setting off English pronunciation flamewars. (Imagine that!) :-) T -- This is a tpyo.