Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> writes: > Andreas JOHANSSON (replying to Delirious) wrote: > >> > TRANSLITERATION LETTERS WITH PROUNONCIATION KEY >> > >> > VOWELS: >> > monothongs >> > phoneme transcribed as earth example >> > /&/ a (a)mo (latin) >> > (open front unrounded) (a)mi (french) >> >> _Amo_ and _ami_ has [a], wherefore /&/ seems an odd representation. It >> suggests either a rounded vowel (following the X-SAMPA) or something a bit >> more close (following CONLANG tradition; this is the vowel sound of >> English "cat"). > > Did you take a look at Ms. Sarri's Greek website? > http://users.otenet.gr/~bm-celusy/chart2.html > I'm afraid it's the source of much of D's "problem"-- amo and ami are her > cites, then she claims that Greek /a/ has a possible pronunc. [&] i.e. [ĉ] > ash. That's news to me, but then I can only count from one to ten in modern > Greek, efkharistó and kali spera. Some other links at her site take you to > an Amer/Brit pronunc. guide (antimoon.com), not all of which is acceptable > to me, either. Hmph. Well, what bugs me is that (while I am no longer fluent in French), *I* say it as /a/, and thus, was a bit blind to not catch it when re-reading it. Dyslexic or not. > > Another site I visited recently had a French section (mixed > phonemic/phonetic) where the /a/ of ami was indeed pronounced very > close to [ĉ] ash, but was called [a], agreeing in that case with the > sample at the NTNU site. That pronunc. also, was news to me. Gee, whiz, Mr. Mills, those linguists are supposed to be educated. Shouln't they have sorted it out by now? > > BTW, that business of "ts, ks" as "diphthongs" is also due to > Ms. Sarri's site..... Yes, when they might better be said to be affricates. Is there a glossary of terms online I should copy down 100 times? :-) <snip> > and everyone's version would be the same, or at least very close.. > That is the point of "International", no? You think that's fun, try being new to IPA and being told eight different things! I think half the problem comes from /individual/ phoneme(sp) deviations-- if you use your own voice to "hear" a pronounciation, or take someone elses abstract as gospell (guilty), you run into trouble. > It would be interesting to organize a "First International Conlang > Phonetics Congress" (ideally in Amsterdam, Stockholm, Melbourne or > Paris, but I suppose on-line would do), in which as many of us as > possible post samples of our speech along with what we think is the > IPA transcription thereof. > _Then_ we'd have something to discuss. Before or after the fisticuffs amoung those self- assured that they're using the "one true transcription"? :-) > > (Does anyone have ideas how to set up such a thing?? Obviously, > first, get a microphone......) Then get each speaker to do the babel text in native lang? ;-) > Finally, my apologies to everyone whose name contains the string > ...andreas.... As you must realize by now, I am easily > confused. Roger. To avaid confusion, since I've seen a few "Daniel"s... Delirious or Del is fine. -- Daniel 'Delirious' Sauve http://deleriousraven.livejournal.com/ http://thedobd.blogdot.org/ http://www.topica.com/lists/thedobd/ Prophet Marcus Says: Which is more beautiful; a caterpillar, a cocoon, or a butterfly?