> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "And Rosta" <[log in to unmask]>
> > I, on the other hand, find the discussion both highly relevant and
> > highly interesting. I urge people to discuss such things on Conlang,
> > and Andreas to delete the messages that don't interest him
> Hello, And.  It is not just Andreas that is repelled by this topic
> *I* was the one who was approached by people who thought my language would
> be just perfect for their dwarves.  Because of the peculiarly personal
> quality of this issue, I am not interested in getting into a discussion
> about the ethics of creative or intellectual property, or the need for a
> less "proprietorial" philosophy about one's work or creation.  I suspect
> that you want to promote that ethic, but you and I will never quite see eye
> to eye.  We've been over this before, I think

It's a question I'm interested in exploring from both sides, rather than
promoting one side of. And the questions about the rights we expect to
have over our work also relate to questions about why we do the work in
the first place and why we publish it.

> Over the past five years I have put up a fine set of pages, artwork, and
> music, what would amount to a BOOK in my profession, for the free perusal of
> all fellow creators on this list, and for any who admire it from afar.  I
> copyright my creations on the Internet.  Most decent people respect this,
> and a Florida branch of the Red Cross, who have asked to borrow my "Banjo
> Playing Mermaid" for their fundraiser this coming June, will give me credit
> for the painting that I have freely lent to them.  As for my Teonaht, you
> other conlangers are free to peruse and use it as you wish, so long as you
> recognize that I am its creator, and not you.  I think that I had good
> reason for being dismayed about the possibilities of having someone co-opt
> my work against my will with impunity, as it was talked about so brutally
> this weekend.  Andreas understands my dismay, Yitzik understands it.   *I*
> was the one who started the thread in a light-hearted manner... Teonaht for
> dwarves!  Ha ha!  And I was the one who asked that we stop talking about it
> Andreas was one of several who were following suit

Andreas's message seemed to be asking that we eschew discussion of
copyright altogether, not refrain only from discussing the ugly &
painful thought of someone travestying Teonaht. By all means we should
avoid prolonging a discussion that pertains to you personally & pains
you, but "Let's not discuss this any longer" messages when said of
some general topic should be restricted to off-topic subjects.

> > philosophical debates
> > about what a language as a work of art is, about the ethics of
> > intellectual property, and about our own sense of proprietoriality
> > over our own creations..
> We went over this in a discussion of on-line publishing a year ago.  You
> can talk about this all you want, And, so long as we shift the emphasis of
> propietoriality and the ethics of ownership and art to your Livagian, and
> away from my Teonaht

FWIW I would feel the same pangs if my ideas were used without me
being given due credit, but without any strong sense of an infringement
of legal rights. It has happened to me in my linguistics scholarship
that people have taken ideas from me & used them without acknowledgement
-- that causes me a severe twinge of ego-bruising & a sense of somebody
having expropriated what is rightfully mine, but ultimately it is mere
discourtesy & certainly I am thankful that I cannot patent or copyright
or in any other way claim legal ownership of scholarly knowledge, even
when that knowledge is available to us on through my (hypothetical!!)
genius or industry.

Don't take this as an attack on you. It isn't, & you don't need to
reply unless you care to.