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"commune id vitium est, hic vivimus ambitiosa
paupertate"
"this is our common fault; here we live in ostentatious poverty"
Juvenal, Satires 3.182-3





>From: [log in to unmask]
>Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [conlang] Digest Number 2882
>Date: 18 Jul 2003 07:56:28 -0000
>
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>      25. Re: Palatal Trills, Taps, and Flaps
>            From: Julien Eychenne <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
________________________________________

>
>Message: 25
>    Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:49:50 +0200
>    From: Julien Eychenne <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Palatal Trills, Taps, and Flaps
>
>Hi,
>
>Anthony M. Miles a écrit :
> > This is for a language I invented long ago, but did not consider the
> > current
> > problem. In Mayeemae Vuumae [J@je:m{ vu:m{], certain consonants become
> > palatals. If <l> [l] becomes <ll> [L], then a postalveolar trill [r] or
> > tap/flap [4] becomes palatal, but how does one represent it in X-SAMPA?
>[R]
> > (my analogical preference) is used for a voiced uvular fricative, but
>any
> > uvular fricative is lacking in Mayeemae Vuumae.
>
>As far as I know, there is no palatal trill/flap neither in IPA nor in
>SAMPA. This is really lacking, as it seems that several langugages
>(including Polish) have a true (alveolo)palatal rhotic. You can use a
>digraph such as [r'] or [r_j], or even [r_S] if the palatalized
>consonant sounds a bit like the Polish one. You could also imagine that
>/r/ (or /4/ ?) becomes [j] when it palatalizes : it is quite a natural
>process (cf. caraibean spanish :/revolver/ --> [revolvej]).
>
> > Also, is there a symbol indicating postalveolar.
>
>Do you mean a diacritic ? If so, there is no such symbol. Using the
>diacritic "retracted" (e.g. [r_-]) is not appealing, and ATR is even
>worse, since it implies a pharyngeal (or root tongue) activity. Using
>[_S] seems to me the best way to deal with postalveolarness. But maybe
>someone knows a better way to do it :).
>
>Julien.
>
What about r_L (l:L::r:r_L).
r_L is an allophone in the language, but an orthographically marked one.

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