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On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 06:31:24 +0000, Ray Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Thursday, January 8, 2004, at 07:08 PM, Joe wrote:
>> I would guess that in Welsh they come from a voiceless(and
>> preaspirated) approximant, but I'm probably wrong.
>
> Sort of correct.  The starter was apparently sl-.  Initial /s/
> became /h/ early on (a fairly widespread sound change; it occured
> in pre-historic Greek and IIRC ancient Persian, inter alia); thus
> initial sl- --> hl- and then the simple [K] (voiceless lateral
> fricative).

Thanks, Ray! I *believe* something similar happened in some northern
dialects of Norwegian (Tro/mso, I think), where a (palatalized?)
lateral fricative occurs at least intervocally, historically derived
from either *-sl- or *-tl-. Can any of our Scandinavian members comment
on this?

> But, to return to [sl] - it doesn't have to be initial, nor do you
> have to go through [hl] for the sound to change to [K].  I remember
> hearing on my bus journey a few weeks back an obviously native Brit
> woman, speaking with an otherwise colloquial north Surrey accent,
> consistently pronouncing 'dyslexix' as [dI"KEksIk].

I'm not sure what speech pathologists call it, but I believe that
lateral lisping is not uncommon - did she only do it with /sl-/ clusters
and not on all occurences of /s/? If only with /sl/ then I guess her
idiolect has acquired an interesting shift - one wonders if it is
peculiar to her or occurs with other members of her family or locality?

The extIPA for 'disordered' speech also includes symbols for combinations
of central + lateral fricatives - something like the simultaneous
pronunciation of /K/ and /S/ I gather.

Bfowol