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On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:18:08 +0000, Ray Brown <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>On Friday, January 9, 2004, at 04:46 PM, Paul Roser wrote:
>
>On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 06:31:24 +0000, Ray Brown &lt;[log in to unmask]
wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>The extIPA for 'disordered' speech also includes symbols for combinations
>>of central + lateral fricatives - something like the simultaneous
>>pronunciation of /K/ and /S/ I gather.
>
>But [K] itself is more or less /l/ and /S/ pronounced simultaneously.  I
>remember, when I lived in Wales, being told that Welsh 'pwll' was like
>pronouncing English 'pull' and 'push' at the same time   :)
>
>Ray

And that's probably not a bad description for someone with no
phonetics training. =)

But typically [K] has central closure, with lateral escape on one or both
sides of the tongue (I think that's idiolectal - it's certainly not a distinction
that is very robust auditorily). The 'disordered' sound has central grooving
plus lateral release, so it's even 'mushier' sounding. Think of it as a
lateralized [S].

For those interested, here are a couple of pdfs on the extIPA, the first a
German exposition, the second from the official IPA site, though neither
really describes the segments in any detail. Ball described tsome of these
in one or another of his books on phonetics for disordered speech, but
they're very difficult to find. If I find any decent references on line I'll forward
them to the list.

www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/dt/lehre/materialien/ transkription2/Transkription_extIPA.pdf

www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/ExtIPAChart97.pdf

Bfowol