From: "Andreas Johansson" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 7:01 PM Subject: Re: The phrase 'I'd like...' Quoting Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>: >> Yes, "je voudrais" is conditionel I (future I + imparfait). As for German, I >> don't know what mood "ich möchte" is, I must admit. I don't believe ?möchten >> exists ... *looks up in the Duden* ... no, it doesn't exist (although >> wouldn't be impossible I think!). I haven't got an etymologic dictionary at >> hand, so then I *guess* "möchte" comes from "mögen" (to like). Would be >> sensible, because indicative = mögen, past = mochte, Konjunktiv I = ich >> möge, Konjunktiv II = ich möchte(/würde mögen*). The Konjunktiv II forms are >> always derived from the past form, Konjunktiv II is derived from the >> indicative form. Besides, you can also say "Ich hätte gerne ..." (I would >> like to have... => I'd like (to have)...). So from my assumptions: "ich >> möchte" is subjunctive and thus kind of an indirect expression. > > It feels rather funny saying this to a native speaker (tm), but yes, _möchte_ > is formally past subjunctive ('Konjunktiv II') of _mögen_. One could no doubt > make a case it's a separate lexeme in modern German - I'm in no position to > tell whether it would be a _good_ case. > > The form _möchten_ exists, of course - past subjunctive plural; _wir > möchten_ "we would like". Andreas Yes, but there is no verb "möchten" of which I _really_ thought it would exist (because it's used as a seperate lexeme as you said).