From: "Andreas Johansson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: The phrase 'I'd like...'

Quoting Carsten Becker <[log in to unmask]>:

>> Yes, "je voudrais" is conditionel I (future I + imparfait). As for
German, I
>> don't know what mood "ich möchte" is, I must admit. I don't believe
>> exists ... *looks up in the Duden* ... no, it doesn't exist (although
>> wouldn't be impossible I think!). I haven't got an etymologic dictionary
>> hand, so then I *guess* "möchte" comes from "mögen" (to like). Would be
>> sensible, because indicative = mögen, past = mochte, Konjunktiv I = ich
>> möge, Konjunktiv II = ich möchte(/würde mögen*). The Konjunktiv II forms
>> always derived from the past form, Konjunktiv II is derived from the
>> indicative form. Besides, you can also say "Ich hätte gerne ..." (I would
>> like to have... => I'd like (to have)...). So from my assumptions: "ich
>> möchte" is subjunctive and thus kind of an indirect expression.
> It feels rather funny saying this to a native speaker (tm), but yes,
> is formally past subjunctive ('Konjunktiv II') of _mögen_. One could no
> make a case it's a separate lexeme in modern German - I'm in no position
> tell whether it would be a _good_ case.
> The form _möchten_ exists, of course - past subjunctive plural; _wir
> möchten_ "we would like".


Yes, but there is no verb "möchten" of which I _really_ thought it would
exist (because it's used as a seperate lexeme as you said).