I wrote of "ll":

<<I've only ever heard a mixture between [j], [Z] and [dZ].>>

Then Roger wrote:

<<I'm a little suspicious of the
[dZ], however-- perhaps we Americans are hearing their somewhat frictional
[j\] as our more familiar affricate (this might also apply to the Japanese
speaker someone mentioned)>>

<humor>
" 'We', white man?"
-Tanto to the Lone Ranger after the latter said, "Looks like we're surrounded!",
upon discovering that they were surrounded by "Indians".</humor>

-David "Born Chicano, Despite the Last Name" Peterson
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"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."

-Jim Morrison

http://dedalvs.free.fr/