On Monday, September 6, 2004, at 06:47 , Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Peter Bleackley wrote:
>> Staving Benct Philip Jonsson:
>>> I hereby propose to elect Aule the Smith, one of Tolkien's
>>> Valar, as the deity of conlanging.  Not only is he part of
>>> a myth created or discovered by a great conlanger, but also
>>> a conlanger himself, as can be seen from the following
>>> excerpt:
>> <Snip the origin of the Dwarves>
>> Good, except that we should really consider Aule to be a Guardian Angel
>> rather than a deity. Although the Ainur "have often been called gods", it
>> is clear that Tolkien identified them rather with the angels (Maiar) and
>> archangels (Valar) than with pagan gods,

Yes, that is hardly surprising. As one who shares the same religion as
JRRT, that is exactly how I view them.

>> and that the name of "God" belongs
>> to Eru Illuvatar alone - the Numenoreans, in the days of their wisdom,
>> worshipped only Eru.

Yes, of course. JRRT was a monotheist, like millions of other people. When
wrote recently that if I was really being serious I would have taken a
different line, that is what I was referring to. As a monotheist, I cannot
in the proper sense subscribe to the concept of a _god_ (or _goddess_) of
Conlanging or of anything else.

> OK I was thinking like a Buddhist here.  For me *all* "deities",
> are in a sense "angels",

I assumed you were, and I find no problem with that.

> ...........  Clearly our POVs are different, and we have to
> accept that rather than debate it.

I agree.

> Jeffrey:
>> Hmm... Tolkien clearly patterned the Valar after the Norse
>> gods,
> Certainly not exclusively the Norse gods.  IMHO there is a
> larger portion of original mythopoeia in there.

I agree with this also.

>> yet Aule is not a god but an "angelic power" in
>> Tolkien's phrase. So I see why you chose the word "deity".
> Yep.  For the long explanation from the POV of my own
> beliefs see above! :)

Some people might find the phrase "guardian angel" too associated with a
particularly religion and "god of ..." as not being consistent with
monotheism (Yes, I am being serious - but in order that we can have a bit
of fun without causing offense), so how about:
Aule, Guardian spirit of Conlanging.

'guardian spirit' can be interpreted according to our different POVs.

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"They are evidently confusing science with technology."
UMBERTO ECO				September, 2004