>On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 14:35:17 -0500, Sally Caves <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>You misunderstand me, Pascal.  I said "BACK trilled."  The vibration of
>>the uvula against the back of the tongue (what we call in America a
>>gutteral or back trill--sounds a little bit like imitating the growling of
>>a dog), which is practiced by many Germans in pronouncing some "r"s,
>>especially notable in conjunction with back vowels--Friedrich Wilhelm Emil
>>RRRRRoth!--and decidedly different from the French uvular "scrape," which
>>I'm better at. I've heard my native German teacher pronounce
>>it--gerrrrradeaus!--I've heard my native German friends pronounce it and
>>poke fun at my attempts at it, and I've had other Germans tell me that the
>>French "r" is just fine, don't be too hard on myself.  It's a SPLENDID
>>sound, and expressed, I believe, by the IPA graph [R\], or so I've been
>>told.  I can only produce it under certain salivary conditions. ;-)

The French uvular "scrape"? Would this be a fricative [R], as opposed to a
German trill [R\]? I don't know much about the variation of French voiced /r/.

On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:16:44 -0500, Pascal A. Kramm <[log in to unmask]> answered:

>I know that sound you mean, the [R\] sound. It's a quite old-fashioned
>pronunciation that is practically only used by the older generation. In
>today's pronunciation, it is definitive NOT like that anymore, but rather
>is the voiced uvular fricative [R].

There is no single uniform pronunciation of standard German, and the
pronunciations vary in the realization of /r/. As I've already written, many
varieties have [R] for the "rhotic" /r/, but other varieties have [R\] or
[r]. If you want to make assertions about the pronunciation of standard
German, you need to specify which variety of standard German you're
referring to. At least, you should say something like "in my region", just
as people on this list do in the YAEPTs.

j. 'mach' wust