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Ray Brown wrote:

>>I've always believed that a language influences your tought. Another
>>writing
>>system, in particular if it's as special as a 2dWS would be much like an
>>another language. Sapir-Worf and so on...

I had no idea there was such a war around Sapir-Whorf amongst conlangers. It
really wasn't a flamebait. I won't do it again, I promise! I only believe in
Villatel's theory on thought and language. I swear...  ;-)

> The sig below shows what I think of Sapir-Worf. But the sort of 2d writing
> I have in mind is the exact opposite: it is to record thought! *Thought
> comes first & must determine the writing.*

I was just thinking about a 2dWS that gets closer from thought than our
linear one. For me two dimensions aren't enough to record my thought; I'd
rather need four dimensions with sub-spatial wormholes... or the kind of
fractal writing system I described in a previous post.

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>>I know some 2D-zealots strongly disagree

> This is not a fair or reasonable statement IMO.

This wasn't meant to be! It was a joke. There's a smiley. "zealot" and
"heresy" outside of fundamentalist cults can't be taken seriously nowadays.

>>but I don't see why we couldn't use linear elements in a 2dWS.
>>To draw a square, you use lines. So, using words isn't a 2D-heresy.  ;-)

> If you read my past mails you will see that I have said just that!! Of
> course a using linear rows and columns is two-dimensional. You can even
> use diagonals! No-one AFAIK has said otherwise. Who are these zealots who
> who hold this to be a heresy?

I didn't remember it was you. So, you're the "2D-zealot".  ;-)

http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0505b&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=3681

I found a bit exaggerated your statement that using columns and lines as
elements in a 2dWS is linear. It marked me but I didn't remember who said so.

Apparently, you changed your mind.

> But the subject line is "Non-linear / full-2d writing systems" - it is not
> just "2d writing system".

> A system using linear elements is - er - not non-linear      :)

Apparently, you changed your mind... again.

And what you're talking about is simply impossible. No linear elements means
that using columns and rows as layout is "forbidden", using any kind of
drawn connection (line, curve, sinusoid, arrow, etc) is "forbidden" because
setting two elements the one next to the other is "forbidden" (2 dots = a
line). You're definitively a "2D-zealot".  ;-)

That's why I talked about drawing a square without lines. You can't.

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> How about turning our energies from discussion to actual implementation?

The one doesn't prevent the other. I find this thread about 2dWS one of the
most interesting for some time. I used to be a lurker...

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Remi Villatel
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