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>
>Hello, everybody, I have more questions about tri-valent clauses.
>This time, its about dative, benefactive/malefactive, and ablative cases.

*sits down to take notes*

>Suppose the Pope pays Leonardo 100 ducats to paint a portrait of the 
>Duchess for the Duke.

okay.

(one supposes that the Duke has no money of his own, though).  :)

>But, in a lot of languages, "Leonardo" in sentence 1) would be in the same 
>case as "the Pope" in sentence 2).  In these languages, this is a kind of 
>"dative-ablative" case.

okay.

>(There is a difference between that kind of ablative and the "Leonardo came 
>from Florence, not from Milan" kind of ablative.)

ah...I didn't know that.

seriously.


>Now consider the sentences
>3) "The Pope paid Leonardo for the Duke."
>4) "The Pope paid 100 ducats for the Duke."

  guess he wanted a non-Cardinal to be a serving boy.  :)



>But, in a lot of languages, "the Duke" in sentences 3), 4), and 5) would be 
>in the same case as "Leonardo" in sentence 1).  In these languages, this is 
>a kind of "dative-benefactive" case.

again, I didn't know that.

>(I don't think the "malefactive" case is grammatically different from the 
>"benefactive" case; is it?  Maybe someone knows of a counter-example.)

>----
>
>Finally;
>Once Leonardo finishes the painting, whose painting is it?

  linguistically, or legally?  :)

>Is it the Pope's painting, because he paid for it, and it was painted at 
>his behest?
>Is it Leonardo's painting, because he created it?
>Is it the Duchess's painting, because it is her likeness, and she sat for 
>it?
>Is it the Duke's painting, because it was done for his benefit, as a gift 
>for him?
>Is it all of the above?

can it be all but Leonardo's?


>Anyone who doesn't want to answer any of those questions, consider this one 
>(not original with me -- sorry, don't know who thought of it first)
>
>If a house-fly should lose its wings, would we English-speakers have to 
>call it a house-walk?

  [this is the] first time I heard it!

  and it would then be a flightless fly, or a flightless housefly.

I hope that helps.


>Thanks to anyone who answers.
>
>Tom H.C. in MI
>
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