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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:19:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Chappell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: SURVEY: Idiomatic Expressions In Your ConLang Or ConCulture
To: conculture conculture <[log in to unmask]>
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      --- In [log in to unmask], Yahya Abdal-Aziz <yahya@m...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> I wrote:
> > I expect it will take some long and ingenious thinking to
> > produce anything comparable to this variety in any of my
> > conlangs.
> 
> This would seem to be the only part of my post that 
> Tom HC did NOT read! :-) 
   
  Es tut mir leid --
  I'm sorry to say, Yahya, you are quite right about that.
  I apologize.
   
  > That's your answer, Tom:
> I have created nothing irregular or unpredictable in 
> any of my (three, to date) conlangs, although Far 
> Strine may have inherited a few from Strine (*), just 
> as Strine itself may have inherited 'Strewth!' from 
> BritEnglish.

  Message received and understood.
   
  > On 'Strewth!' - there's no way this speaker-of-
> Strine-as-L1 (me) could have predicted the meaning
> of 'Strewth!' - in particular, that it is a contraction
> in which the 'S' stands, as unlikely as it may seem, 
> for the whole word 'Godz'.  Why?  Because it is sui
> generis - one of a kind - a unique construction in
> Strine. 
   
  "Sui generis" means "one-of-a-kind".  Example quote from http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2001/06/14.html :
    William Randolph Hearst did not speak often of his father. He preferred to think of himself as sui generis and self-created, which in many ways he was. 
--David Nasaw, The Chief: The Life of William Randolph Hearst
   
  So, what means "self-created"?

   
  > [snip]
> 
> I'm sorry that my examples from English did not seem 
> to Ray and others to be germane. 
   
  Is the "german --> germane; human --> humane" process productive and transparent?
  If so what does it mean?
   
  > [snip]
> 
> (*) 'Strine' comes from the title of a book by, IIRC,
> 'Nino Culotta' (John O'Grady), 'Let's Talk Strine',
> popular here in Australia in the early sixties, in which
> O'Grady's fictional narrator Nino, a 'Noo Orstrylian',
> related his difficulties learning our transparent lingo.
> If you haven't read it, see if you can find a copy -
> recommended for all fans of language 'as she is spoke'.

  I recognized the word as soon as I saw it, but I thought it came from Cordwainer Smith, author of "Norstrilia".
   
  However, I checked http://www.ulmus.net/ace/csmith/cspronunciation.cfm
  ("Cordwainer Smith Pronunciation Guide ( Paul Linebarger ) by Alan C ... ")
  and decided that it didn't come from his work, but rather from commentary on his work, or from my own Australian relatives and/or acquaintances -- I must have misremembered.
   
   




		
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<DIV id=RTEContent>  <DIV id=RTEContent>  <DIV id=RTEContent>  <DIV>--- In <A href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A>, Yahya Abdal-Aziz &lt;<A href="mailto:yahya@m">yahya@m</A>...&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hi all,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I expect it will take some long and ingenious thinking to<BR>&gt; &gt; produce anything comparable to this variety in any of my<BR>&gt; &gt; conlangs.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This would seem to be the only part of my post that <BR>&gt; Tom HC did NOT read! :-)&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>Es tut mir leid --</DIV>  <DIV>I'm sorry to say, Yahya, you are quite right about that.</DIV>  <DIV>I apologize.</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&gt;&nbsp;That's your answer, Tom:<BR>&gt; I have created nothing irregular or unpredictable in <BR>&gt; any of my (three, to date) conlangs, although Far <BR>&gt; Strine may have inherited a few from Strine (*), just <BR>&gt; as Strine itself may have inherited 'Strewth!' from
 <BR>&gt; BritEnglish.<BR></DIV>  <DIV>Message received and understood.</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&gt; On 'Strewth!' - there's no way this speaker-of-<BR>&gt; Strine-as-L1 (me) could have predicted the meaning<BR>&gt; of 'Strewth!' - in particular, that it is a contraction<BR>&gt; in which the 'S' stands, as unlikely as it may seem, <BR>&gt; for the whole word 'Godz'.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because it is sui<BR>&gt; generis - one of a kind - a unique construction in<BR>&gt; Strine.&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>"Sui generis" means "one-of-a-kind".&nbsp; Example quote from <A href="http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2001/06/14.html">http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2001/06/14.html</A>&nbsp;:</DIV>  <DIV>  <DIV>William Randolph Hearst did not speak often of his father. He preferred to think of himself as <STRONG>sui generis</STRONG> and self-created, which in many ways he was. <BR>--David Nasaw, <CITE><A title="Buy this book or read about it
 at Amazon.com" href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0395827590/lexico"><FONT color=#0033ff>The Chief</FONT></A>: The Life of William Randolph Hearst</CITE></DIV>  <DIV><CITE></CITE>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>So, what means "self-created"?</DIV></DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&gt;&nbsp;[snip]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm sorry that my examples from English did not seem <BR>&gt; to Ray and others to be germane.&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>Is the "german --&gt; germane; human --&gt; humane" process productive and transparent?</DIV>  <DIV>If so what does it mean?</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (*) 'Strine' comes from the title of a book by, IIRC,<BR>&gt; 'Nino Culotta' (John O'Grady), 'Let's Talk Strine',<BR>&gt; popular here in Australia in the early sixties, in which<BR>&gt; O'Grady's fictional narrator Nino, a 'Noo Orstrylian',<BR>&gt; related his difficulties learning our transparent lingo.<BR>&gt; If you haven't read it, see if you can find a copy
 -<BR>&gt; recommended for all fans of language 'as she is spoke'.<BR></DIV>  <DIV>I recognized the word as soon as I saw it, but I thought it came from Cordwainer Smith, author of "Norstrilia".</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>However, I checked <A href="http://www.ulmus.net/ace/csmith/cspronunciation.cfm">http://www.ulmus.net/ace/csmith/cspronunciation.cfm</A></DIV>  <DIV>("<A onmousedown="return clk(this.href,'res','1','')" href="http://www.ulmus.net/ace/csmith/cspronunciation.cfm"><FONT color=#551a8b><B>Cordwainer</B> <B>Smith</B> Pronunciation Guide ( Paul Linebarger ) by Alan C <B>...</B></FONT></A>&nbsp;")</DIV>  <DIV>and decided that it didn't come from his work, but rather from commentary on his work, or from my own Australian relatives and/or acquaintances -- I must have misremembered.</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>
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