On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 Henrik Theiling wrote: 
> Hi!
> "Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]> writes:
> > The distinction between [v_0] and [f] being, I presume, one of laxity?
> Exactly.
> One of the interesting phonemic distinctions in Dutch.  Another one I
> particularly like is
>     /x/ vs /r/ vs /xr/
> with the side note that many dialects have [X] for /x/ and [R] for
> /r/, so you get
>     [X] vs [R] vs [XR]
>     goot   [XoU)t]  - poured; gutter
>     rood   [RoU)t]  - red
>     groot  [XRoU)t] - big
> Very funny. :-)

What fun!  My very good Dutch-born Aussie friend
way back in high school (1960s) told me that the
Dutch resistance was able to trap German "plants"
by their pronunciation of "Scheveningen", his home 
town.  Try as they might, only the more linguistically 
adept could overcome the habit of years, to avoid
pronouncing the "Sch" as [S].

So now we have a new test, for quickly determining
a Dutch speaker's dialect: ask him or her how to say
"a big red gutter" in Dutch ... :-)

> > As I said, the usual American pronunciation is [v&n gou].  I
> > personally have tended to pronounce it [fVn gOG]; I shall endeavor to
> > use [xOx] in the future. :)
> Hehe.
> (BTW, In German, it's usually pronounced [fan gOX].)

Very close to my usual pronunciation; I think most Aussies 
say [v?n gOf] (the [?] as in "apple"; what's the CXS for 
that?), whereas I'd tend to say [fan gOX].  Obviously, the 
[g] is wrong!


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.18/230 - Release Date: 14/1/06