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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 15:04:59 +0100, taliesin the storyteller <taliesin-
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>In all the Indo-European languages I've had a look at, "but/however" are
>standalone words. In logic/semantics, "but" is considered yet another
>"and". The difference in using "but" instead of "and" is that the "but"
>says that something else was expected than what actually happened.
>
>a) X and Y.
>b) X, expected Y but got Z.
>
>I'd hate to copy Indo-European usage here, so what other ways are there
>to to get the effect of "but"?
>
>I thought of using "and" as usual with the second clause (the Z) marked
>with the counterfactual, but :) that seems wrong somehow. So I ask:

May I suggest this is a job for the Mirative?

Much like your thought, mark the second clause (the Z), but, since it is 
factual rather than counterfactual, instead of marking it Irrealis, mark 
it "Mirative" -- meaning approximately "the speaker still wonders at it", 
more precisely "the speaker still has not incorporated it into his/her 
worldview".

So, if you expect X and Y, but get X and Z, you'd say, in effect:
"X and Z-MIR".

>
>1. How do your conlangs handle but/however?

I haven't decided yet; glad you asked the question.

>2. How do natlangs handle but/however differently from IE?

I hope someone else knows.

>3. Searching for but/however is rather pointless, so is there a
>   good linguistic term?

Well, the Latin for "but" is "sed"; how about "sedative"?

No, I just tried that; it doesn't work.

;-)

eldin