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Donald (>), Carl (>>), Rex (>>>):
> >>It is very tempting to do the "mi frapitas la sxtonon" thing,
> >
> >My language intuition made a hiccup there -- I don't know if it or you
> >is correct in this case -- but I would have said "mi frapitas de la
> >shtono".
>
> I think that Rex may have been suggesting his
> use-accusative-form-as-agent-with-passive idea.

Oh, so it was an experimental usage? That explains it -- I really
should read things more carefully before reacting.

> >Some people use "far" instead of "de" in this case, to indicate an
> >agent in a passive phrase.
>
> Despite the fact that I like this particular
> form, I've noticed that use of it seems to have
> declined considerably since I first learned the
> language almost half a century ago. Apparently
> the argument that "de" is overloaded, while
> probably true (in the usual theoretical sense),
> is also not very compelling to the ordinary speaker.

I remember seeing it in Thierry Salomon's "List of superfluous roots":

 <http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/ts/vortoj.html>

Since then, I've actually used "far" a bit more frequently. :)

// Carl