Je 03.23 ptm 2006.11.23, Todd MOODY skribis

>On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 2:34 pm, Carl Mäsak wrote:
>>Donald (>)
>>>Despite the fact that I like this particular
>>>form, I've noticed that use of it seems to have
>>>declined considerably since I first learned the
>>>language almost half a century ago. Apparently
>>>the argument that "de" is overloaded, while
>>>probably true (in the usual theoretical sense),
>>>is also not very compelling to the ordinary speaker.
>In a recent discussion Bertilo Wennergen pointed 
>out that one objection to "far" is that it is an 
>irregular adaptation of the verb "fari".  Even 
>"fare de" is quite idiomatic and not 
>generalizable.  We don't say "skribe de," for 
>example, and certainly not "skrib."

Two points here:

(1) Bertilo Wennergren (author of "Plena manlibro 
de Esperanta gramatiko", published by ELNA, 
available for the incredibly -- for a 700-page 
hardback technical book -- low price of $27.00), 
is linguistically very conservative. This is not 
a Bad Thing, since 99 and 44/100 percent of all 
individually proposed changes and reforms to 
_any_ language are pernicious; but it also tends 
to make one miss the 56/100 percent of 
individually proposed changes and reforms that 
would be Good Things. (*) (Bertilo and I have 
tangentially tangled before on the desirability 
of the ALI-column in the correlative table, he 
considering it a Bad Thing and I considering it a 
Good Thing; I also consider it an Inevitable 
Thing, but don't know how he feels about that.)

(2) Even if your reject "far" (and a very few 
other similar constructions; I rather like "mez", 
myself, but nobody else uses it, so neither do 
I), "fare de" is actually standard fare (pr. 
"fehr" -- this was unintentional), and "skribe 
de" is perfectly legitimate; in fact, many people 
use "pere de" to mean "through the agency of" as 
a weaker variant of "per", "by means of".


(*) Conservatives tend to protect us from those 
who would implement Mandatory Change by Personal 
Fiat, as with the Ido "reform". In fact, the only 
thing that I, who am well left of center 
politically, have against the current crop of 
political conservatives in the United States is 
not that they are conservative but that they 
aren't ("freebooter" or "brigand" would be a more appropriate term).

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