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On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:49:48 -0500, [log in to unmask] wrote:

>li [Jens Wilkinson] mi tulis
>
>> > I thought so too until I actually tried it. I
>> > memorized the Loglan
>> > primitives (about a thousand or so) much more
>> > rapidly than any other
>> > lexicon I've encountered. "Mrenu" ("_ is a man/adult
>> > male human") seemed
>> > laughable, but I memorized it unintentionally the
>> > first time I saw it.
>>
>> Actually, this is an interesting point, and it is
>> possible that it's *because* it was laughable that you
>> were able to learn it. So there is something to be
>> said for laughability. The word for spider in Swahili
>> is "bwibwi". To me, it sounds a bit like a spider, or
>> at least my image of one. A creepy, nasty creature.
>> And I haven't forgotten it since.

I have run into such phenomena. But just in the course of reading _Loglan 
One: A Logical Language_ I picked up a fair amount of vocabulary: mrenu, 
durzo, blanu, etc. When I had a list that explained the sources, I went 
even faster.

>I actually did make a run through the entire Lojban gismu list.  Though
>I was going through the list to gather some semantic roots for my own
>project.  I did run through the list and have to admit only a couple of
>words stuck in my head, where I would expect more after 1300 words.  

I don't care for Lojban, and in some way that I don't understand, they 
messed up the composite primitive system. I've seen a few of their words, 
and they don't strike me as memorable either.

The
>more irritating part also has to do with those 3-letter short forms (I
>forget what they are called too, "lujvo?") used.  Some have 2 or 3
>different short forms which have to be remembered along with the main
>gismu entry.

That's the problem with Loglan (where they're called "djifoa" ["join-form
(s)"]). One of the things that bothered me about Lojban was that they 
claimed they had redesigned Loglan to eliminate all its problems, yet they 
imported a patch for an initial design flaw. Twits.

The best way to learn the djifoa is to learn compounds. The primitives with 
a lot of djifoa are generally high frequency anyway.

>In all fairness though, neither Loglan or Lojban were intended as IAL's,
>and seem well-suited to the experimental purposed for which they were
>designed.

Loglan wasn't, though I'm less sure about Lojban. One of the things that 
annoyed me about Dr. Brown was that he neither understood auxlangers (or 
rather Eists--same thing as far as he was concerned) nor bothered to learn 
from them. It would have done him good to learn Eo. Curiously, many 
Loglanists were Eists as well.

Steve