On Tue, Jan 16, 2007 at 12:19:06PM +0200, Isaac Penzev wrote: > H. S. Teoh wrote: > > | Yet Another Russian Thread. :-) > > Since I seem to be the only Russian speaker currently active on the > List, I feel obliged to help. OK. :-) > | On Mon, Jan 15, 2007 at 10:18:27PM +0200, Isaac Penzev wrote: > | > I'd better give you examples of the correct Russian. > | > > | > Я учу химию. - I learn Chemistry (in the secondary school). > | > Я изучаю химию. - I study Chemistry (at the university). > | > | So you'd use a different verb to distinguish between studying secondary > | school and studying at university? (Well, not really different, but > | cognate.) > > Usually, yes. _Изучать_ generally implies more thorough studies. OK. [...] > | So the verb here is the > | reflexive form, with a dative for the subject of study. Interesting. > > Yes. After thinking a little, I see we may use _учиться_ (_я учусь_) here > too. They are equivalent. OK. > | > Я учу сестру читать. - I teach [my] sister how to read. > | So accusative case for the person being taught, I guess? > > Yes. That is why I used the 1st declension noun for illustrative > purposes, as they have a distinct for of Accusative. > > | > Я учу детей истории. (clumsy, a bit archaic) = Я обучаю детей истории. > | > - I teach kids history. > | > | Interesting. Doesn't обучать mean "to train"? > > I don't know all the nuances of the *English* verb "to train", so my > spontaneous Ru. equivalent to it would be _тренировать_ (back > translated "to be a coach"). But then I consult the En-En dictionary > and see I am wrong. That's just a side meaning. We often take > *glosses* as *equivalents*, while they are not. > So yes, _обучать_ means "to train". This usage ("to train kids history") is awkward in English, but I guess it works in Russian. [...] > | Side question: is чтению pronounced ["tSt_jeniju] or ["St_jeniju]? > > [ˈʧʲtʲenʲiju] / CXS ["tS;t;en;iju]. Something like an extremely short > [i] may be heard between [tS;] and [t;]. But neither required nor > recommended. I see. Where are the contexts where чт becomes [St]? I know it does in words like что, and I read somewhere that ч has a tendency of fricativising in other places as well. [...] > | > | Учить can mean both "to teach" and "to learn", the distinction being > | > | drawn by the case of the nouns: "to teach" having the learner in the > | > | accusative case and the subject in the dative, whereas "to learn" > | > | having the subject in the accusative case (and the learner in the > | > | nominative). > | > > | > Верно. См. выше. -- That's true. See above. > | > | This seems to work differently for other verbs like преподать, as you > | have above. > > Many RU. verbs are unique wrt "Rection" (prepositional and/or case > governing). That's cool. Almost like Ebisédian. :-) I guess there's no real general rule that can be used for deciding which cases go with which verb, and I just have to learn them on a case-by-case basis? > | > This time you are 100% right. But it's better to use the verb > | > _нравиться_ "like" instead of _любить_ "love": _Мне нравится учить > | > русский язык._ > | > | I read about this in my book, that usually Russian would use нрпвится > | where the English may use "love" instead of "like". I guess любить would > | be used in occasions such as "I love you", although my book did have a > | conversation where someone said, Я люблю говорить по-русски. Would this > | be unusual in real-life? > > Sounds a bit odd. _Ljubit;_ is a strong word, y'see... OK. So мне нравится говорить по-русски is more appropriate? (Did I phrase that right?) > To say nothing about slang equivalents to both, for example _Я тащусь > от хипхопа._ "I go mad about hiphop". Тащиться? My dictionary glosses it as "to drag oneself along"? Interesting slang... [...] > | Speaking of short adjectives... it seems to me that they are essentially > | predicative adjectives, is that right? (In the sense that they are > | adjectives being used as a predicate.) > > Exactly so. Plus some archaic idioms that may be used, e.g., ironicly, > for example _красна девица_ "a fair maid". [...] Literally "red maiden"? Funny. Do all adjectives have a separate short (predicative) form? I almost thought хороший was an exception, but then I looked it up and find its predicative forms as хорош, хороша, хорошо. Do all neuter short forms coincide with the adverbial form? T -- One who has not yet appreciated the beauty of language is not worthy to bemoan its flaws.