li [MacLeod Dave] mi tulis la > ... I often find that the best way to change a > culture is to change it in a way that people aren't really aware of > the change as you were saying, where people change but still believe > that they haven't had to give up any of their core beliefs, even if > they have changed. That's basically how it's being done here. They power that be are sneaking are not shoving their ways down our throats, but are spoon feeding it to us a little bit at a time. It's sort of like taxes where they add a half-percent here and quarter-percent there until eventually you find half your paycheck going to taxes. > ... Well, energy independence would be > even better but that won't be happening for a while. No it won't. Not because it's not possible (http://hytechapps.com/), but because it upsets the current power structure too much, and *they* like things just the way they are.