> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas

> Kjell:
> > Imagine you have a guy standing 20 yards befor you
> > and this guy is turning his face toward a tree.
> > Wouldn't we say that he is standing before the
> > tree. We will say that he is standing behind the
> > tree, even though facing it, if he has a sub-macine
> > gun in his hand and is wating by the side of ta
> > road, where the tree is like hiding him... or he
> > is hiding behind the tree. Or?
> I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.  You
> didn't say whether the tree was between me and the
> guy.  Is he pointing the gun at me, or at the road?
> Absent of other context, if someone told me they saw
> some guy hiding behind a tree, I would understand this
> to mean that the tree is between the speaker and the
> guy.

Context is the key here.  "hiding behind a tree" means he's
hiding from someone so that would put the tree between him and
whatever he is hiding from, not necessarily the speaker.

> I would not understand it to mean that they had
> come up behind the guy as he was hiding.  In that
> case, I would expect something like "I came up behind
> a guy as he was trying to hide behind a tree."

He may not be hiding from you though.  You could still come up
behind him while he is hiding from some third party.

> If I saw someone, much as you described, standing
> between me and a tree, close to the tree and facing
> it - perhaps touching the tree with his nose, I would
> say that he is standing in front of the tree with his
> back towards me.
> I can imagine a situation where I might say "someone
> is shooting at us -- quick get behind that tree."  In
> that case, the frame of reference is the shooter.  I
> am saying "make it such that from the point of view
> of the guy shooting at you, you are behind the tree."
> As a general answer, yes, I could imagine a situation
> where I say someone is "behind a tree" where the
> tree isn't between me and the guy, but only if there
> was a clearly defined third point of reference.


> ...