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2007/10/30, MacLeod Dave <[log in to unmask]>:
> 2007/10/30, Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues <[log in to unmask]>:
> > On 10/29/07, James Chandler <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > Antonielly scrit:
> > >
> > > >Iste numero face me pensar que portugese/espaniol
> > > deberea haber plusprestigio mundial que ilo ha ora.
> > >
> > > Maybe the problem is that Spanish and Portguese are
> > > two languages, not one.  AFAIK they are not dialects
> > > of the same language.  Why would you be any more
> > > likely to add together the figures for these two, than
> > > for Sp. and French, or French and Italian?
> > >
> >
> > Because they are mutually comprehensible to a really large extent,
> > even in speaking. This was my (subjective) criterion to group them in
> > a diasystem.
> >
> > I do not speak Spanish and work with a Colombian who didn't speak
> > Portuguese before we met each other the first time. Even before I
> > studied Interlingua, I could understand Argentinian tourists in
> > Brazil, if they spoke slowly and clearly. I went to Spain and it
> > wasn't that hard to understand people there; they just had to be a bit
> > more patient and speak more slowly and clearly to me. It is even
> > easier to understand written Spanish.
> >
> > Spanish is so close to Portuguese that Spanish is hard for native
> > Portuguese speakers to "perfectly" master due to intense L1
> > interference, and vice-versa.
> >
> > I cannot say the same about Italian and French. I've been to Italy and
> > could understand many words they spoke, because there are cognate
> > words in my language (and in Interlingua, of course). But Italian is
> > harder to understand than Spanish for me. So I wouldn't group
> > Portuguese and Italian in a diasystem, since they are not very
> > mutually comprehensible without further effort from the speakers (in
> > my case, Interlingua made it easier to understand).
> >
> > It is true that Portuguese and Spanish are two languages. But here we
> > enter the discussion language X dialect: when are two mutually
> > comprehensible ways of speaking called different languages and when
> > are they called different dialects of the same language? ;)
> >
> > Anyway, Portuñol (the improvised mix of Spanish and Portuguese by
> > native speakers of any of the two languages) is a very successful
> > unofficial language for Latin America and Iberian Peninsula.
> >
> > Vida longa a nuestro querido Portuñol! Un día nuestra lengua comun
> > dominará el mundo! :D
> >
> > Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues
> >

I was thinking about this subject a bit more today. As a native
Portuguese speaker interested in IALs, do you think it would be a good
idea to set up a draft of what Portunhol might or should look like? It
seems to be taking shape on its own to a certain extent but it would
be interesting to see what you could do to speed up and streamline the
process. Maybe a list of preferred forms and expressions, choosing to
go with regular verbs whenever possible, and perhaps when there are
two possible expressions for the same thing (i.e. when none of the two
have a dominant or mutually understood form) you could reference other
romance languages in order to recommend the more widely understood
form.

I don't mean you by yourself of course, something more like a group of
like-minded people that could make recommendations on mutual
terminology and use, recommendations that people can use as they see
fit.

Once a form is decided upon you could promote it as a kind of
advertising tool that kills two birds with one stone. Companies that
want to promote something all over South America for example could get
a free Portunhol translation from the people on the site that both
Spanish and Portuguese speakers can understand.

Unless that sort of thing is already happening, of course. I noticed
that a few companies have been using a type of Portunhol for
advertising, but I'm thinking more of a service for those that don't
know Spanish or Portuguese.

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