2007/11/6, Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues <[log in to unmask]>:
On 10/30/07, MacLeod Dave <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about this subject a bit more today. As a native
> Portuguese speaker interested in IALs, do you think it would be a good
> idea to set up a draft of what Portunhol might or should look like?

It would be nice to see a Portunhol/Portuñol-based conlang. I have
also had the same thought before. Then I performed a search on the
Internet but I have never found a conlang along those lines. I have,
though, found some references to three different kinds of Portunhol:

* A literary Portunhol, with some poetry and regional romance books
published by writers who live in the Brazil-Paraguay border. It seems
to be more a mix of Spanish and Portuguese forms (code switching) than
an emerging language.

* Portunhol as a genuine attempt of Brazilians to communicate in
Spanish, but failing due to L1 interference and ignorance about
Spanish. From this we have comic situations like someone saying [es]
"Yo estoy embarazado." ([en] "I (a man) am pregnant.") when he meant
[pt] "Eu estou embaraçado." ([en] "I am ashamed."). This is an example
of "false friends". It is worth it to notice that Spanish and
Portuguese have the word [pt]"embaraçoso"/[es]"embarazoso", which
means [en] "shameful". More commonly, we find hypercorrections such as
"Yo vengo de una región *puebre*." ([en] "I am from a poor region.",
but the correct word would be "pobre" both in Portuguese and Spanish).

* Portunhol as a joke: since Brazilians do not automatically know
Spanish, they sometimes write in a Spanish-like fashion just because
it sounds funny. "Absurd" words are intentionally created, an example
of which is "blueg" [blog], to poke fun at the many words which
originally had an "o" but were changed to "ue" in Spanish. Other
examples are "barujo" (from [pt] "barulho", which means [pt/es]
"ruído", [en] "noise") and "prieto" (from [pt] "preto", [en] "black",
to poke fun at the many words which originally had an "e" that were
changed to "ie" in Spanish).

Some examples of Portunhol-as-a-joke are the following animated
cartoons (you need a Flash plug-in to watch them).
Making fun of Argentina, the main adversary of Brazil in soccer:
http://charges.uol.com.br/2007/10/16/esporte-jejum-argentino/
Populist presidents in South America talking about the visit of the
American president to Brazil (jokes directed toward Argentina again):
http://charges.uol.com.br/2007/03/14/mundo-clube-dos-nao-alinhados/

There is even an Orkut community named "Lambada Escandinava", whose
purpose is to talk in a funny way by using a mix of Portunhol and
gibberish that looks like some Scandinavian languages:
http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=23249953
(BTW, I guess "Lambada" is not a very popular dance in Scandinavian
countries. :D )

> seems to be taking shape on its own to a certain extent but it would
> be interesting to see what you could do to speed up and streamline the
> process.

I think this is a phenomenon restricted only to small regions across
the Brazilian borders with Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay. AFAIK, it
has not had any effect on the language spoken in the biggest part of
the country. There has also been some Portunhol taking shape along the
Portugal-Spain border, but the process has been really slow: it has
not impacted the language spoken in the most influential cities of
both countries.

> Maybe a list of preferred forms and expressions, choosing to
> go with regular verbs whenever possible, and perhaps when there are
> two possible expressions for the same thing (i.e. when none of the two
> have a dominant or mutually understood form) you could reference other
> romance languages in order to recommend the more widely understood
> form.
>
> I don't mean you by yourself of course, something more like a group of
> like-minded people that could make recommendations on mutual
> terminology and use, recommendations that people can use as they see
> fit.
>

Sure. One of the guidelines I would suggest is to use the most
conservative form according to vulgar Latin. For instance: "fire" is
[pt] "fogo" and [es] "fuego"; since the original form was [la] "foco",
then the word in the Portunhol-based conlang would be "fogo" ("g",
rather than "c", is used in both Portuguese and Spanish, so it would
be kept). "make" is [pt] "fazer" and [en] "hacer"; by the same
reasoning, the selected form would be "facer" (from [la] "facere").


Yeah, I would often think the same thing myself when I saw two words between the two and preferred one to another. That's the Interlingua influence, I think. That would probably be a good way to select between two words when one seems to be just about as good as the other, since it's best to move towards Latin (and therefore other Romance languages) than away from it.

What about pronunciation? I know little about Portuguese, but is there a dialect in both languages that is both more similar to each other and to other Romance languages at the same time?

> Once a form is decided upon you could promote it as a kind of
> advertising tool that kills two birds with one stone. Companies that
> want to promote something all over South America for example could get
> a free Portunhol translation from the people on the site that both
> Spanish and Portuguese speakers can understand.
>
> Unless that sort of thing is already happening, of course. I noticed
> that a few companies have been using a type of Portunhol for
> advertising, but I'm thinking more of a service for those that don't
> know Spanish or Portuguese.
>

Interesting. Could you provide some samples?

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues

The only samples I saw were in that pdf I provided a link to a few posts back (it's also in the Portunhol Wikipedia page in the external links as well) but there were some references to companies such as an airline company between Brazil and another country that created a Portunhol ad to celebrate a certain number of decades of service between the two countries.

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