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Lou pointed out to me off-list that another option would be to use
<graphic> nested in one of the divTop elements rather than adding
<figure> to divTop (which could mess things up - as Godfried points
out, elements in divTop aren't supposed to appear elsewhere in the
document) - although <graphic> by itself doesn't have the added value
of <figDesc>.

Using <opener> might be a stretch, but if the figure is being as an
opener in a manuscript then there's an argument to be made for it. And
it's better than messing about with model declarations.

Dot

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 6:07 AM, Conal Tuohy <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Alternatively, the figure could be wrapped in an opener, before the head.
>
> e.g.
>
> <div>
>   <opener>
>      <figure/>
>   </opener>
>   <head>...</head>
>   ...
> </div>
>
>
> From the TEI-C site:
>
>   <opener> groups together dateline, byline, salutation,
>   and similar phrases appearing as a preliminary group at
>   the start of a division, especially of a letter.
>
>   http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-opener.html
>
> Is that too much of a stretch?
>
> Cheers
>
> Con
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list on behalf of Dot Porter
> Sent: Thu 5/15/2008 21:56
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: <figure> at start of <div> (was Re: <figure> on first page of letter, annotation after the <closer>)
>
> Dear Croenen,
>
> The issue you're running into appears to be a problem with the
> declaration of <div>
> (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-div.html).
> I'm not the best at reading declarations, but <figure> is a member of
> model.common while <head> is a member of model.divTop, and any
> elements from model.divTop must occur before model.common or they
> can't appear at all. So it isn't that <figure> is an alternative to
> <head>, exactly, it's that elements from model.divTop can't appear
> after any elements from model.common.
>
> Anyway, thinking of it this way the simplest answer might be to add
> <figure> to model.divTop in your schema, since this is something that
> happens often in your manuscripts. Then <figure> and <head> will be at
> the same level, and you'll be able to place your <figure> before
> <head>.
>
> Dot
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 4:32 AM, Croenen, Godfried
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Dear Lisa and Dot,
>>
>> I do agree that in this specific case <figure> is not the correct tag, but the problem remains that the use of <figure> seems too restrictive, and does not alwasy allow one to insert the figure where it physically sits on the page or in the flow of the text.
>>
>> I am dealing with medieval manuscripts in which miniatures often appear at the start of chapters, before any headers. Although placing a <figure> there is allowed in P5 or P4, it then excludes the <figure> being followed by a <head> (P5 sees the figure as an alternative to head, as far as I understand). Ideally, I think I would want figure to be allowed anywhere in the <text> (i.e. like milestone elements), but that may be a bit too unrestrictive.
>>
>> Godfried
>> --
>> Dr. Godfried Croenen
>> Director of Graduate Studies
>> School of Cultures, Languages and Area Studies
>> University of Liverpool
>> Chatham Street
>> Liverpool
>> L69 7ZR
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> Tel: +44 (0)151 794 2763
>> Fax: +44 (0)151 794 2357
>> e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Personal webpage: http://www.liv.ac.uk/~gcroenen/index.htm
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dot Porter
>> Sent: 14 May 2008 22:26
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: <figure> on first page of letter, annotation after the <closer>
>>
>> Hi Lisa,
>>
>> Regarding your first question - if you're using P5, rather than using
>> the <figure> element you should take a look at 11.1 Digital Facsimiles
>> (in the chapter "Representation of Primary Sources):
>> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/PH.html. This
>> section describes various methods for linking page images to the pages
>> using the @facs attribute. The most simple method (if you only have
>> one image per page) is to indicate the file using @facs on <pb/>:
>>
>> <pb facs="page1.jpg"/>
>>
>> You can also list all your image files within <facsimile> in your
>> header, and point from your <pb/>s to items in that list.
>>
>> <facsimile>
>>  <graphic xml:id="page1" url="page1.jpg"/>
>> </facsimile>
>> ...
>> <pb facs="#page1"/>
>>
>> If you aren't using P5, I encourage you to look into it! In any case,
>> <figure> really isn't the tag you want here (I just saw Amanda's
>> reply, and she's right that <figure> should be used to note figures or
>> illustrations on a page, not the page itself).
>>
>> Dot
>>
>> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 4:58 PM, Lisa Spiro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Hi there,
>>>
>>> We're running into a couple of problems with a collection of letters that
>>> we're marking up.  First, we're trying to include page images at the top of
>>> each page using the <figure> element so that readers can easily compare the
>>> transcription with images of the original letter.  However, as I read the
>>> divTopPart and divWrapper content models, <figure> must come after <opener>
>>> and <salute>.  Is there a valid way to place a <figure> immediately after
>>> the <div> opens?  Should we be looking at some other solution, or just live
>>> with  <figure> appearing after <salute>?
>>>
>>> Similarly, in several letters the recipient has made annotations after the
>>> sender's signature.  One way to treat the annotation would be to mark it as
>>> an <add> or <note>, but we get a validation error when we try to put either
>>> after <closer>.  We could treat the annotations as a separate <text> (which
>>> seems unsatisfactory because the annotations refer to the content of the
>>> letter), or we could include <note> or <add> within <closer> (which doesn't
>>> reflect the structure of the letter).  What would be the preferred method?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help!
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Lisa Spiro, Ph.D.
>>> Director, Digital Media Center
>>> Fondren Library, Rice University
>>> 713-348-2594
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***************************************
>> Dot Porter, University of Kentucky
>> #####
>> Program Coordinator
>> Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities
>> http://www.rch.uky.edu
>> Center for Visualization and Virtual Environments
>> http://www.vis.uky.edu
>> [log in to unmask] 859-257-1257 x.82115
>> ***************************************
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ***************************************
> Dot Porter, University of Kentucky
> #####
> Program Coordinator
> Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities
> http://www.rch.uky.edu
> Center for Visualization and Virtual Environments
> http://www.vis.uky.edu
> [log in to unmask] 859-257-1257 x.82115
> ***************************************
>
>



-- 
***************************************
Dot Porter, University of Kentucky
#####
Program Coordinator
Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities
http://www.rch.uky.edu
Center for Visualization and Virtual Environments
http://www.vis.uky.edu
[log in to unmask] 859-257-1257 x.82115
***************************************