On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Paul Kershaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> From: R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> >> Mark J. Reed wrote: >> > Is the onset of , for Anglophones who "pronounce the [t]", >> > actually [t_s], or is it simply [ts]? >> >> Mine is [t_s] - the instances I've heard sound like an affricate rather than a >> cluster. certainly in Japanese - and that's the language that began this >> particular thread - it's [t_s] (and phonemically /t/). > > For me, it appears to be [ts]. It certainly sounds to me like I usually resegment /tonkatu/ to [toN$kat$su] rather than [toN$ka$t_su] (or is it [toN$ka_0$t_su] in Japanese? My memory on devoiced vowels is rusty), although I'm not sure if that's definitive evidence for word-initial. In Japanese it really is [toN.ka.ts)u]. It's common for anglophones to split the affricate into separate coda [t] and onset [s], but it's pretty clearly the case that the alveolar stop is not part of the preceding syllable (except when geminated). Is it even possible for an allophone to split like that? BTW, devoicing only happens to /i/ and /u/, so you were right the first time.