On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > On 2009-04-20 Garth Wallace wrote: >> >> I'm actually going to go with just a nomen agentis. Since >> voices are derivational, the "nomen patientis" would >> just be the nomen agentis of the passive (or middle). >> > > Even if you use the same derivational suffix you > still must differentiate the Latinate terms: since > _agent_ litterally means 'doer' and _patient_ > literally means 'undergoer' or 'sufferer' it makes > no sense to call the nominalization of the passive > participle an 'agent noun'. I suggest that you > don't try to retrofit the terminology of your > grammar to that of latin grammar, but roll your > own term, like _active/passive participial noun_. Fair enough. The relevant thing here is the syntactic subject, not the agent specifically, so that makes sense. Ilion voices are derivational, so it really doesn't have a passive participle so much as the participle of a passivized verb (and the participle of a middle-voice verb, and the participle of a passivized middle-voice verb).