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>>> What about skipping any of this debate and state the goal in terms of
>>> typed pages, or lines of text, or something else that's agnostic about
>>> how you divide up words?
>
>> I think this is a great idea. Say 50 (just a random number i'm
>> throwing out) 8 1/2" x 11" pages  of single spaced 12pt text. Anyone
>
> ....presumably in a monospaced typeface?  And with what margins?

feels like high-school all over...
I think we could be lenient about the font and margins. Assume
whatever the standard margins are for your printer. Being lenient on
the font is good because I'm sure there are others out there who have
used one of those free handwriting font services to generate a font of
their orthography. And even if you haven't, reading pages and pages of
monospaced font is much less pleasant. ;)

>
>> planning on doing it by hand can just type out some of their existing
>> stuff to see how many pages of their handwriting it takes to make one
>> page typed.
>
> I'd be inclined to express the goal in terms of phonemes or characters
> rather than pages or lines.

logically this makes a lot of sense. practically... I'm not so sure.
There are tons of apps that'll tell you the number of characters in a
document, but phonemes? I think anyone doing it by hand would have to
just use rough estimates based on a test page, but they'd have to do
that anyway. Geeks like me could write a script to count phonemes but
non-geeks using computers would be forced to do rough estimates also
if we went with phonemes. I don't know about others, but that would
annoy me. I like knowing I'm 40 words / chars / whatever, from the
day's goal.

[snip]
>I don't normally use a word processor and
> don't have a working one on this machine; but probably I'll have a
> better computer with OpenOffice by the time October gets here (or we
> get there?   gzb would say "before  the environment becomes October",
> I think).

Google docs has a surprisingly usable word processor.

>
> Also, as someone (Arthaey?) said earlier in the thread, it probably
> does make sense to have different goals rather than one common one,
> depending on how complete one's conlang is and how much practice we've
> had writing in it.

I agree, and much as i'd like a global # we'd all shoot for I've
become thoroughly convinced that it's unrealistic. We need to figure
out some sort of sliding scale but it's going to be tricky, and
honestly will probably require a few runs before it gets decently
accurate.

> I'm 14 pages (so >1400 words) into this fairy tale
> I've been working on recently and haven't needed to coin even one word
> yet, as far as I can tell (at least a quick skim shows no instances of
> my marginal symbol for  "new word here, put it in the lexicon!").  A
> goal that would be challenging for me might be unattainable for
> someone whose lexicon is smaller and who needs to coin new words more
> often, and a goal that would be challenging but possible for them
> would probably be not challenging enough for me.   We should probably
> do practice runs on different stories from the ones we're planning to
> do in October (or whenever we do this? that seems to be the consensus
> date so far), as Arthaey mentioned, and at some point (not at the
> beginning) time ourselves and check our word count for one writing
> session.  Then set a goal for LoCoWriMo that implies one good session
> pretty much every day in October, maybe?

I'm thinking you're right AND doing so would give people an idea of
the amount of work they're setting themselves up for. But I think it's
more than just a timing thing. What about writing one page, preferably
in a similar genre, and timing it, counting number of new words
coined, number of times you had to stop to question / address sentence
construction, and whatever else we decide would be good to keep an eye
on.

Then take those numbers (plus words/characters/phonemes/pages/whatever
we're counting in) and put them into some simple equation we'd have
come up with and receive an estimated goal for what you should be able
to accomplish in a month of good sessions.

I think those of use with young languages we're not fluent in yet are
going to have a bunch of stumbles with sentence constructions we
weren't expecting (last night I realized I have no good way of
expressing the future-past tense) so words coined isn't going to be
enough. But, whatever problems we have on that first page, I think
it's safe to say that as we get farther into the challenge each page
will come out faster and faster, due to improved fluency and the fact
that the lexicon at our disposal will grow with every page.

Should this be a practice run separate from the story, or should we
make the task for day 1 of LoCoWriMo to write at least x amount (or
for x time) and then analyze it to calculate your goal for the rest of
the month?

-Kate