Print

Print


On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:28:04 -0600, Daniel Bowman <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>With disjunct subject
>
>Helen zirau eleo isa elen.
>hope DISJUNCT see FUTURE you DISJUNCT_SUBJECT I you.
>Hopefully for you, I'll see you.

There's something I didn't get clearly from either of your descriptions. 
When you gloss _helen_ as "hope DISJUNCT", does that mean it's _derived from
the lexical verb_ "hope", or just that it's the disjunct used for hoping?  

If the former, I'd take disjunct as a category of the verb in Angosey (not
as a derivation to a different word class), a participle- or converb-like
form used in certain adverbial clauses.  Perhaps only particular verbs can
have it.  A verb placed in the disjunct takes its logical subject in the
DISJUNCT_SUBJECT case (you said some prepositions take this case as well;
that would make me happier about this analysis).  If none is provided the
speaker is understood.  

By the way, a little request: please use hyphens or dots or something to
join gloss elements for one word ("hope-DISJUNCT"), not spaces ("hope
DISJUNCT").  It jars me to have spaces in the interlinear gloss not match
spaces in the text.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:05:00 -0400, maikxlx <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM, Daniel Bowman
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> With disjunct subject
>>
>> Helen zirau eleo isa elen.
>> hope DISJUNCT see FUTURE you DISJUNCT_SUBJECT I you.
>> Hopefully for you, I'll see you.
>
>That's interesting.  Probably in most languages you'd revert back to the
>base verb e.g. "You should hope that ...".

Indeed.  (Whether or not "base" is actually an apt word here; I think not
but never mind that.)  

Daniel, Mungojelly, others who have designed this feature in to their
languages: how does this construction differ, in pragmatics or any other
aspects of interpretation, from the analogous construction with a verb?  The
Lojban case in particular -- why were people not happy with using predicates
(whatever they're called, I've never absorbed the native names), such that
they wanted _da'oi_?

On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't find this feature surprising.  English
has it in some constructions ("luckily for him, such and such happened").  

Alex