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Quoting "Jörg Rhiemeier" <[log in to unmask]>:
> > I think they really are. There is nothing un-humanlish about
> neither
> > of these languages. It's quit easy for me to visualize a human
> society 
> > speaking Sindarin. It's harder to do the same with Quenya, though. 
> 
> Where's the problem with Quenya?  It is not more difficult than Latin
> (which has more irregularities in its inflections) or Finnish (which has
> more noun cases).  I have seen natlangs which are much "wilder"
> than
> Quenya!

I don't really know. Probably it's because Quenya sounds more elvish to me. I'm used to Sindarin now (because I've 
"studied" it and applied some  of it's features to my Longrimol).
And yes, I have seen wilder natlangs, too :)
 
> > > This page about the elflang Sperethiel from the Shadowrun and
> Earthdawn
> > > RPGs
> > >  
> > > http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Sperethiel_Dictionary.htm
> > > 
> > > begins with the usual lofty buzzwords about Elvish
> ("runic
> > > language"
> > > - what does that mean?  Runes are just an old Germanic
> alphabet;
> > 
> > I think it could mean "written with runes"
> 
> Of course; it becomes evident from the text itself.  What kind of runes,
> is not said, though.  "Runes" is, in the role-playing game
> scene, a
> frequently used buzzword for "magical symbols".  Of course, the
> actual
> Germanic runes were simply an alphabet - they *were* used for magical
> purposes, but not exclusively nor even predominantly so, and such
> magical usage of letters is found in many cultures.

Yeah, I said it just to point out the obvious :)
 
> > > "perhaps the most complex language on earth";
> "very
> > > efficient
> > > information transfer"; "over a dozen
> declensions") - and
> > > then presents
> > > which appears to be a language with a seemingly quite humdrum
> European-
> > > style grammar.  There is nothing especially intricate or
> ingenious
> > > about it.
> > 
> > I managed to see only one declination :) IMHO, Nom., Gen., Dat. and
> Acc. 
> > case system is quit poor for the "most complex language on
> earth"... If it 
> > were my tongue, I would've threw at least Locative, Ablative and
> Allative :) 
> 
> Indeed.  What we see of Sperethiel looks like a run-of-the-mill
> euroclone, with a phonaesthetic loosely (very loosely) modelled on
> Celtic languages.  There is no evidence for it being the "most
> complex language on Earth", nor is there even evidence for the kind
> of depth we can find in Quenya or Sindarin.

Would it be possable to put such a depth in only one fifth of  page? :)
 
> > > But perhaps that is too much to expect from an elflang.  We are
> all just
> > > human, and designing a truly superhuman language is beyond our
> > > capacities.
> > 
> > But of course we are (and of course it is)
> 
> Yep.
> 
> On Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:01:28 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> 
> > On 2009-10-28 Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> > > Elven children are few and far between, and there are some 
> > > *very* old Elves around who still remember how people spoke 
> > > 10,000 years ago
> > 
> > They don't remember.  Tolkien actually addressed
> > this somewhere, saying that Elves 'update' (my
> > word, not his) their memories, so that they
> > remember their past as if they had spoken the same
> > form of language then as they do in the present.
> 
> I see.  That is what to expect from Tolkien: when he found a problem
> in his cosmos, he came up with an elaborate explanation for it.
> 
> > We shortlived mortals can change our speech
> > patterns quite radically during our life.  Not
> > only do words and expressions go in and out of
> > fashion, but so do syntactic patterns and so can
> > habits of pronunciation[^1], and we most of us
> > can't readily recall the way we spoke only a few
> > years ago or reliably tell which of the language
> > patterns which we use now but didn't use in the
> > past, or worse still tell which patterns we used
> > then but don't use anymore.  Given that I don't
> > find this it far-fetched that the Elves would
> > experience the same difficulty on an even larger
> > scale.
> 
> A good point.  Indeed, languages change not only from generation to
> generation, but even within the lifetime of an individual.  The
> "imprecise learning" hypothesis does not really cut it.  It is
> thus indeed conceivable that a being living thousands of years may
> wind up speaking a language quite different from the speech of his
> childhood.  And we don't know how the memory of an immortal being
> works.  Given that the Elves are anatomically not much different
> from humans, the vastness of their experience over all those
> centuries would lead to much of their memories being overwritten
> with new experience many times over.  Even we forget most of the
> things we have experienced years ago; it must be even more so with
> the Elves.  Under such circumstances, one would indeed expect their
> languages to change, though probably at a slower rate than human
> languages.  This lower rate of change is actually evident from what
> we know about the Eldarin languages.  Quenya and Sindarin are about
> as similar to each other as Italian and French, or Icelandic and
> English; if they were human languages, one would expect them to
> descend from a common ancestor spoken about 2000 years before.
> However, we know that Common Eldarin was spoken about 10,000 years
> (if not earlier) before the War of the Ring.
> 
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf