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lingwadeplaneta wrote:
> --- In [log in to unmask], Geoffrey King <ancientbriton@...> wrote:
>   
>> If I've got these the right way round, Jens Wilkinson wrote:
>>     
>
> Not quite. That was Dana, not Jens.
>
>   
>>>>> [z] does exist in Italian, it's just an allphone of /s/, used in 
>>>>> medial positions so pronunciation isn't the problem so much as 
>>>>> learning to distinguish
>>>>>           
>>>   
>>>       
>> and dana Nutter replied:
>>     
>
> Now what was Dmitry, not Dana. Besides "Dana" should be capitalized. (Note that I don't mean that anybody should capitalize on Dana).
>
>
>   
>>> That's the thing I don't get: even some Italians say "casa" with [s], some others with [z], but my Italian friend hates them to be merged into one phoneme. Obviously he perceives them as very different uncombinable entities. Allowing both versions seems too inexact and ununderstandable to him. I wonder how many people would feel the same. As a R I don't have problem merging them, although [z-s] is phonemic in R. J-n gives very good reasons to merge them:
>>> http://interlanguages.net/AILz.html
>>>   
>>>       
>> I think, in e.g. "casa",  it's a regional difference, perhaps with the 
>> North favouring [s] and the South favouring [z]; and wherever you are 
>> you can still here 
>>     
>
> hear. Four mistakes in one message, Geoffrey!
>
> a clear difference between "casa" and "cassa".
Now you can all see why I'm such a long way behind. I usually take time 
to check these things. There's an Italian proverb:
"Presto e bene, raro viene"

Geoffrey King