On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Bruno Barcelos
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> In my opinion we should try to use a percentage scale to define those terms.

I really don't think that it's scalar. Within any one belief-type,
there is scalar certainty, and potentially even combinations; that's
another matter though.

For instance, I have met people who claim to be dead certain that no
god exists; others claim that it's merely slightly more probable than

In another instance, there are people like Gary who are effectively
strong agnostic theists - who believe that the existence of god(s)
cannot be known, even by data from "personal revelation", but
nevertheless "choose" to believe.

(ObCL: This sense of "choose" for having faith is a bit strange, ne?
Anyone done something around this?)

And of course, most Christians are atheists... about Thor and Zeus, as
are most agnostics (of either sort), because they are the kind of gods
whose claims are easily disproven (e.g. corporeal, domiciled in a
particular location, etc rather than a more abstract,
deliberately-hiding kind of thing that the contemporary notion of
Yahweh posits).

There's one argument in favor of strong agnosticism over weak
agnosticism that I find amusing: one cannot know that a *particular*
god exists (rather than gods, generically), because it's entirely
possible that e.g. the true god is anti-Yahweh, who deliberately
deceives everybody and will give the exact opposite reward/punishment
structure, just because he's an ass. He could do any miracles you like
(being a god), thus proving the existence of at least one god, all
with the Yahweh name attached, but nevertheless is not Yahweh.
God-level deceptions would presumably be impenetrable to us. I'm not
sure how one might label a person who believes in the god's claims,
despite knowing that the god might be lying.

So I think that a global scalar is deeply flawed. It simply isn't

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Where would we put someone (or a whole society) for whom religion/belief in god(s) is simply _irrelevant_?

"Apatheist". ;-)

- Sai