On 10/20/2010 6:32 AM, R A Brown wrote:
> On 19/10/2010 21:59, Matthew Turnbull wrote:
>> I've been poking around the net, and I can't seem to come
>> up with the difference between the greek combining
>> prefixes endo- and ento-, I've gotten the impression that
>> both mean "inside" endo- is somewhat ellative and ento-
>> is allative, but that seems a bit off to me.
> It is a bit off.
> endo- <-- ένδον _endon_ (adverb) = within, inside.
> ento- <-- έντος _entos_ (preposition) = within, inside
> Just to confuse the issue, _endon_ was occasionally used with a genitive
> case just like a preposition, and very occasionally _entos_ was used as
> an adverb :)
> Neither Greek word has an ellative or allative meaning; they just mean
> "inside" (inessive) - one being an adverb and the other a preposition.
> The reason why you haven't been able to come up with a difference in
> meaning between the two prefixes is simple: there ain't one :)


Ray, I'm sure you're right about the point at issue.  (I don't know 
enough about Greek to be entitled to an opinion.)  But...


I think both of you are misusing the terms "ellative" and "allative". 
The former isn't even a real word, AFAIK (it sounds to me like a 
conflation of "illative" and "elative" (see below)), and the latter is 
real but irrelevant to the point under discussion, if I understand that 
point correctly.

My understanding is that these terms, as they are used in describing, 
e.g., Finnish, are members of a group of six "local cases" (that is, 
cases whose core meanings have to do with location).  Within this group, 
there are two cross-cutting distinctions: "static" (referring to a 
stationary or ongoing location) vs. "dynamic" (referring to motion, 
either to or from a location), and "interior" (referring to location 
within some sort of enclosed or bounded space) vs. "exterior" (referring 
to location at either a dimensionless point or a general "place" without 
specific boundaries).  The whole group is:

         inessive (in)
         illative (into)
         elative (out of)
         adessive (at)
         allative (to)
         ablative (from)

The more general term "locative" often covers the territory of both 
adessive and inessive.

Of course, I'm oversimplifying terribly; in many languages whose 
grammars are traditionally described using some or all of these terms, 
the cases referred to have a wider range of uses than my quick-and-dirty 
definitions would imply (an extreme example being the Latin "ablative").

It sounds to me as if the terms you really want are "elative" and 


- Tim