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Hi Ondine,

If you decide what is "there" in the text (or what you want "there" in the display), and you do this with explicit markup, I think you will be better off than leaving this decision, so crucial to your work, to the implicit workings of the TEI design principles. In you case, I would probably introduce <contents> on different levels - come to think of it, I might even use an attribute for this!

It helps me when thinking about this, that, as a matter of principle, elements can do all that attributes can so - and more. So faced with a problem like this (and being, frankly speaking, biased against attributes), I ask myself, which elements can help me bring about what I want?

Best,

Jens

On Aug 26, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Ondine LeBlanc wrote:

> What if my source text is a modern printed volume with an editorial transcription and annotations? That is, the editorial work that I am encoding is a fundamental part of the text that I am encoding?  In the work that we've done in the publications department at the MHS, it helps to distinguish the transcriptions of the historical text from the contextual pieces that the editors have created to provide access to the text, but separating them out would be a misrepresentation of the source text that we used.
> 
> Ondine
> Massachusetts Historical Society
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Doug Reside
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 9:13 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Interchange and incentives (was Re: Defense of TEI for manuscript transcription)
> 
> This is precisely why tool development should be so central to the
> TEI.  Until the community _as a whole_ tries to use the markup, we
> won't know the best way to encode.
> 
> I've been irritated by text nodes that come from an editor rather than
> the source before, but I agree that placing this sort of text in
> attributes is probably not the way to do this either.  I like the
> namespacing idea, as it means I can first process out anything in the
> editorial namespace before doing indexing or any other sort of
> processing.  However, I wonder if leaving such editorial commentary to
> standoff annotations indexed by xpath isn't a better solution.
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Martin Holmes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> On 11-08-26 05:42 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> One way to do this would be with namespaces. Elements deemed to contain
>>>> only transcription could be in a separate namespace from elements
>>>> containing interpretive data or metadata.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> it's not impossible we could allow any attribute to also appear as a child
>>> element in a separate namespace. But I suspect a total rewrite with the
>>> idea of considerably lessening use of attributes would be cleaner.
>> 
>> I thought what he was basically saying was that _if_ this separation were
>> rigid:
>> 
>>  - elements (in <text> at least) contain transcribed content
>> 
>>  - attributes contain editorial/interpretive/metadata content
>> 
>> then indexing and searching the original text would be much simpler.
>> However, this would make it impossible to use helpful markup inside
>> editorial interpolations, and there are other issues, such as supplied
>> expansions:
>> 
>> <choice>
>>  <abbr>Brd</abbr>    <--- original content
>>  <expan>Board</expan <--- supplied, but should be indexed anyway
>> </choice>
>> 
>> The use of distinct namespaces would solve this problem.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>> 
>>> 
>>> I like Jens' thinking, but its a whole big can of worms to open...
>>> --
>>> Sebastian Rahtz
>>> Head of Information and Support Group
>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
>>> 
>>> Sólo le pido a Dios
>>> que el futuro no me sea indiferente
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ondine LeBlanc, Director of Publications
> Massachusetts Historical Society
> 1154 Boylston Street
> Boston, MA 02215
> Tel: 617-646-0524  Fax: 617-859-0074
> [log in to unmask]
> www.masshist.org - America's Oldest Historical Society - Founded 1791
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