On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Michael Everson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 30 Nov 2011, at 16:49, R A Brown wrote:
>>> So far I know of two translations of Alice into Esperanto, one into Volapük, one into Neo, and fragments into Interlingua. All Auxlangs, at least originally. I know of only one conlang translation,

What about Puey McCleary's translation into his Babel, currently being
serialized on this list?

>> But Esperanto, Volapük, Neo and Interlingua are conlangs, aren't they?   ;)
> Ah, now we need an Venn diagram... but my category here was in terms of how the languages tend to be divided amongst the two discussion lists.

In most people's usage "conlang" is a superset of "auxlang".  The
CONLANG and AUXLANG lists differ not simply in what constructed
languages are on-topic for the list, but primarily in *how* one is
allowed to speak about constructed languages.  One may speak about any
constructed language here, but may not invidiously compare one
constructed language with another, asserting that one is better than
another for essentially political or ideological reasons.  One might
speak about any constructed language on the AUXLANG list, too, I
suppose, if one is making a case that it is/isn't suitable as an

> Though actually I think Volapük belongs over here rather than over there.

The phonology, syntax, history, etc. of Volapük are equally on-topic
for either list.  Advocacy of Volapük qua auxlang is on topic only on
the AUXLANG list.

>> It was my experience on the Auxlang list itself, with its bigotry & fanaticism that turned me off.  The final straw, so to speak, was when IIRC four different Novial revival camps were trading insults & flames.
> I had a slightly similar experience with one person there, who started an argument about how inappropriate "Alice" was for a translation text and how obviously Stevenson or Conan Doyle would be much better. But others there were nicer.

My experience on the list was rather better -- when I was active there
around 2004-2006, there was lively debate but few or no flame wars.
Still, I found that over time the same points tend to be debated over
and over (kind of like the YAEPTs on this list, actually!), and it was
the repetitiveness, more than the rare occasional flamage, that
decided me to go NOMAIL on the AUXLANG list for most of the last few

>> Enjoying them as a _conlang_ is a whole different matter.  I happen to share very much your views on Volapük, as it happens.
> I have to say, setting Alice in Volapük has really opened my eyes to the richness and flexibility of Volapük. Much of it is indeed complicated and obscure, but I find reading the dialogue between the characters both lively and pretty easy to get into.

It's a pretty cool language.  I've been vaguely meaning to get back
into it.  I started learning it back around 2004 or 2005, and enjoyed
as much of it as I learnt.  I have an idea for an alternate history
novel where Volapük is in the position that Esperanto has in our
timeline -- a few hundred thousand or million speakers, things like
the Pasporta Servo and lots of conventions etc., but no prospects of
becoming *the* global auxlang; if I ever buckle down to write said
novel, I'll need to learn Volapük better.  I also need to study
19th-century European history a lot more, to figure out a plausible
divergence that leads to the Volapük movement not disintegrating and
making way for the Esperanto movement.

Jim Henry