Print

Print


>
> In Sironu I use the accusative case as the predicate noun.
> Is that grammatically acceptable?
>

arabic does just that -- not in sentences with the zero-copula present, but
when using the verb *k**āna* "(he) was" and a small class of other
"helping" verbs.

yaḥyā rajulun

John man-NOM

"John is a man"


but:


kāna yaḥyā rajulan

was.3ms John man-ACC

"John was a man"


and


ʔinna yaḥyā rajulan
is.indeed.3s John man-ACC
"John is indeed a man."

also cf. the preposition *m* in middle egyptian that precedes
nominal(though not adverbial) predicates.  (egyptian does not mark
case here, but
if it did you would not expect to find a nominative following the
preposition.)

*nsx m sš*
Naskh is [as] a scribe.

no need to formulate your case rules according to indo-european precedence;
if you can dream it, you can 'lang it.

matt

On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 4:27 PM, J. Snow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> In Sironu I use the accusative case as the predicate noun.
>
> Jonu u geto ben. "John is a man.", with -Jonu- being in the nominative and
> -
> geto- being accusative. Is that grammatically acceptable?
>
> On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 05:33:14 -0800, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >--- On Sat, 1/28/12, Charles W Brickner <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Does the verb "to be" take a direct object?
> >
> >No. It shows equation between what's on either side. The sentence "Charlie
> is a conlanger" demonstrates the fundamental identity of "Charlie" with
> >the actions of a conlanger. Be establishes facts and shows the
> relationship
> >between a fact and the thing about which the fact is said.
> >
> >When "be" is used in a question, the fact is unknown, but the same
> identity
> >and relationships are expressed. In this case, the asker is simply
> querying
> >about this relationship. So, "who is Charlie" simply asks to connect a
> >known piece of information with an unknown. "Charlie" is a known name, but
> >"who" expresses an unknown person about whom the name is applied.
> >
> >So far these sentences all express "third person" -- two people are
> talking
> >about a third person who is (in all likelihood) not present at the time.
> >Now we change the mode of address so that two people talking are now
> asking
> >questions about each other: "who are you?" The equation is still the same,
> >but now the person has changed. The grammatical person is now "second"
> >and so the unknown quantity "who" shifts with it, because of its identity
> >with the subject. "Who is he" = third person; "Who are you" = second
> >person; "Who am I" = first person.
> >
> >If you use a different verb -- one that can take a direct object -- *then*
> >you find "whom". "Whom do you want?" "To whom did you give the book?" "I
> >just don't know whom to trust" In all these cases, the verbs are taking
> >an interrogative pronoun as their direct or indirect objects. The objects
> >are thus marked (in elevated speech) with -m.
> >
> >This is what you get when your language doesn't have distinct 1st, 2nd and
> >3rd person interrogative / relative / demonstrative pronouns. In English,
> >and I suspect many other languages as well, we just have the one form.
> >
> >Now go forth and conlang!
> >
> >Padraic
> >
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >> On Behalf Of George Corley
> >> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:41 AM
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Subject: Re: Pronouns (Was: Curious verb construction)
> >>
> >> Oh, wait, nevermind.  In "Who are you?" -- "Who" is the
> >> direct object -- "you" the subject.  Normally "who"
> >> takes third person singular.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:39 AM, George Corley <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Are" can be third person -- it just so happens to be
> >> first and second
> >> > as well.  We still say "this is" and "that is".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 12:32 AM, Luke Fleischman
> >> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Although, if 'who' were being treated as a third
> >> person pronoun,
> >> >> wouldn't it be "Who is you?" and "Who is I?", which
> >> it obviously
> >> >> isn't?
> >> >>
> >> >> --Loki
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 20:39, MorphemeAddict
> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > No, those examples are no different from "he
> >> is you" or "Are you my
> >> >> mother?"
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The person of the predicate noun has nothing
> >> to do with the person
> >> >> > of
> >> >> the
> >> >> > subject or verb.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > stevo (JMO=just my opinion)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Charlie
> >> Brickner <
> >> >> > [log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Fri, 27 Jan 2012 20:30:17 -0500,
> >> MorphemeAddict
> >> >> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >...interrogative pronouns (who/what)
> >> are third person.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Wouldn't questions like "Who are you?" and
> >> "Who am I?" show that "who"
> >> >> can
> >> >> >> also be first and second person?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Charlie
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> È yxw59
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>