Well, γυνή covers a lot more semantic area than the English "woman."  It
can be used as a term of address for one's wife, one's female servant, and
as a general term of address for women like "lady."  I wouldn't read Jesus'
use of γυνή as distancing himself from his mother at all.  I know a lot of
people do, but I just don't see it in the Greek there.

I think the trickier clause, for me, is the first one, which I want to
translate as "what is it to me and you, madam?"  In other words, "what
concern is it of ours if they have wine or not?  we're not the hosts!
 We're guests."  But I'm not sure that's the original intent.

By the way, for those who find it easier to read the Greek in the original
orthography, here it is:

καὶ λέγει αὐτῇ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί, γύναι; οὔπω ἥκει ἡ ὥρα μου.
and said to.her the Jesus: what and, woman?  not.yet arrives
the period

Of course, my Greek is very green yet, so take all that with lots of ἅλς.

On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Puey McCleary <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Thank you, Ray!  I look forward to hearing more about this verse.
>                 It seems that there are two issues.  The first is an
> interpretation of this verse.  Both of the sentences seem a little
> puzzling.
> Second, there’s the issue of how to render them into a very alien idiom.
>                 For instance, some of us may have languages which, for
> social or taboo reasons, one simply cannot address one’s mother as “woman.”
> Can she be addressed by her first name in one’s language?  Perhaps a child,
> at any age, can only address her as “my-mother.”  Does one have to use an
> honorific when addressing one’s mother, or is one expected to be humble
> about one’s family and to exalt someone else’s?
>                 In terms of English, I live in the southern part of the
> United States, and here it’s customary to address women as “ma’am,”  even
> one’s own mother or grandmothers.
>                 I just translated “Mine hour has not yet come,” rather
> literally.
> ##
>                 The Land of Story has no difficulty in venerating a virgin
> mother.  There are at least three cases where children have been born of
> virgin mothers – Crown Princess Éfhelìnye herself and her cousin Ixhúja,
> for instance, and Prince Khyexhròwiqan, the protagonist of these
> gospels.  Prince
> Khyexhròwiqan is unique in being the only male child born of a virgin, and
> his mother had no ritual consort.  So there’s no Joseph character in this
> version.

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