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Sorry, this is a draft I was going to delete!


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 11:29 PM, Nikolay Ivankov <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

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> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Nikolay Ivankov <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
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>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Matthew Merlo <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
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>>> >I would be willing to provide help, what did you have in mind though?
>>> Also, I agree with the suggestions to shorten the >timespan, or at least
>>> the timespan after humans are created.
>>> >
>>> >> So... would anyone be willing to help me with this project?
>>>
>>> My main problem is that I'm not knowledgeable enough about language
>>> specifics to form a coherent language that works,
>>
>>
>> That's not an excuse. I also knew nothing about languages when I've
>> started, and was and am learning in process.
>>
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>>> and I also don't really care about learning enough to get to the point
>>> where I can construct a language well.
>>
>>
>> That's different.
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>>> I know enough to make suggestions, but the actual constructing is beyond
>>> me.
>>>
>>
>> Second ("first" comes later), don't underestimate Yourself. I also
>> thought Arabic, Japanese and Algebraic Geometry were beyond me. Before I
>> started. Not that I've made much success, but nothing that could be learned
>> is beyond Your capabilities! Believe in Yourself!
>>
>> So basically what I need is to be able to do is pretty much describe a
>>> culture and what influences they might have or possible peculiarities and
>>> then let who ever wants to help to go to work on it... This sounds like I'm
>>> going "I want you to make me something so i can claim credit" which i guess
>>> is somewhat the case if that's how you want to look at it, but i am not for
>>> that. I know I can't do this. I want this for my world. So want I'm really
>>> asking is that you create this to fit into my world that I can use, but you
>>> can take all (or most given that I have done some work ^.^) credit.
>>>
>>> As far as influence in the world itself. There are lots of ill defined
>>> things still in my world and I'd love input into them and language defines
>>> culture as much as culture defines language so I look at it more as a road
>>> where we're both constructing paths... it's free range for the most part,
>>> but there houses and roads that i know the location of that you might not
>>> that might have me go "you can't do that" but other than that, I'm open to
>>> anything that works within that and I'm more than willing to say "yup I
>>> didn't come up with that, that other guy did"
>>>
>>> As to what needs to be done...
>>> 8 base languages...
>>> Dragon, Demon, Alvor, Anunnaki, Fomorian, Fairy, Dwarven, Proto-Human.
>>> I think the most important of these 8 are...
>>> Dragon, Fomorian, and Proto-Human
>>> because I need...
>>> Human + Fomorian language and 2 of it's descendants
>>> One of it's descendants that i need is somewhat influenced by the Dragon
>>> Language, but the Dragon language being base to several other languages
>>> makes it important.
>>>
>>> I do have a bit of the dragon language figured out, but it's a mess and
>>> I'm someone else could do a much better job than i with my ideas that are
>>> put into it so far.
>>>
>>> As to where might we have this dialogue once we start working on this
>>> stuff...We can do it here, through regular email, on my forums, but
>>> ultimately, once these get done they're going to go up on my wiki on my
>>> site for this particular universe.
>>>
>>
>> And now comes the First. So, imagine someone comes to musicians and says:
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>> "Hey, guys, I want to write a concerto grande. Actually, music is beyond
>> me, and don't care lo learn playing any musical instrument and writing
>> scores. But still I can be a conductor and a composer. Don't get me wrong,
>> of course your names will be listed in the titles, so You all get a full
>> credit alongside with me."
>>
>> How many people do You think would take it seriously? Especially the ones
>> who can play, who wrote scores. Do you think people that design musical
>> instruments will really listen to the suggestions of someone who never
>> cared to *hold* a violin correctly (if You haven't, it makes much pain for
>> a beginner, even for the chin and the wrist).
>>
>> What if people just don't like the instruments this guy proposes? True,
>> plucking a bow's string was no doubt a terrefic musical invention of its
>> time, and some can *still* produce quite nice ethno music with it. But
>> since then there have been invented violins and lutes and cellos and
>> guitars and shamisens and balalaikas and thousands others, and people can
>> find out more instruments with the knowledge they have, more intriguing
>> than a simple bow. The fact that the bow is carved and painted red doesn't
>> really change the situation.
>>
>> Well, that may be not a good allegory, so let me put it straight. Why do
>> You think I have been writing such a longish text about Tae? I just wanted
>> to emphasize how much work is put there, and how elaborated the world is.
>> For others conworlds I know, they are not a bit less elaborated and unique.
>>
>> And now: goblins, demons, fomorians, dragons? They were kind of OK by the
>> time of Tolkien, since he was one of the *first* to bring tuatha de dannan
>> in the form of elves form the oblivion, and to *create* orcs from gremlin
>> and whatever else. But Ursula K. le Guin was producing unique scifi/fantasy
>> human races just a decade after. Now, why should I be interested in
>> goblins? Aren't there already goblins in Warcraft and Warhammer that act
>> quite similar to Yours? Same for the other races. I despise "standard"
>> races, but I believe there are people around that can create a world where
>> these races would still be interesting, and You may well be one of those
>> genial guys - no kidding. If You insist that one can pluck a red curved bow
>> such that it looks and sounds beautiful - show us, maybe it's indeed worth
>> a concerto. But if You just believe it's possible to play interesting music
>> with a bow, and ask someone of us to figure out how to do this, with You
>> giving suggestions - sorry, I'm out.
>>
>> You see, I seem to *love* the world of Padraic Brown here. The World he
>> creates is wast and beautiful, and is full of amazing creatures, folks and
>> ideas. Would I write a funfic on it? Many years have passed since I have
>> thought of a funfic on the worlds of le Guin, who I admire. Now you want us
>> to write not even a funfic on... what? After many years of learning
>> history, mythology, art, techs, languages, linguistics, biology, physics,
>> cosmology, often to the detriment to my primary occupation, I think I can
>> produce such worlds in dozens a week. And I'm still no more than an
>> apprentice here, who stands in awe before the giants.
>>
>> I know my e-mail sounds annoying and irritating. I don't expect You to
>> like what I say. The funniest thing, I know precisely how it feels. It's
>> just... just like me some 6 years ago, bunching around, telling everyone of
>> my new fancy world, and saying "you don't understand!" when they told me
>> "why don't you want to learn more?" So, sorry, someone is to say:
>>
>> Why don't You want to learn more?
>>
>> This time it's me. Please don't take it too personally.
>>
>> I sincerely wish You the best luck with Your project, far beyond the
>> point where You really surprise me and make me *want* to create a language
>> for You.
>>
>> Take care!
>>
>> Kolya
>>
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