*WOW* was this message delayed! I sent this one yesterday, before several other people commented, and it only showed in the list today, meaning it's all pretty much old info. On 01/18/2013 10:22 AM, Tony Harris wrote: > Actually there's a fairly developed Golic Vulcan, including script. > Based the same way Mark Okrand did Klingon, take the passages of > spoken language with subtitles out of the first film where it's used, > then parse that back into the language, and build from there. > Paramount never officially approved it, although I think I heard that > they did actually use some bits, without attribution. > > See here: http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/Category:Vulcan_Language_Institute > > > On 01/18/2013 10:17 AM, George Corley wrote: >> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >>>>> I discussed this elsewhere and those who know more about Star Trek >>>>> than >>>>> me seem to be saying that there is too much already written about >>>>> Vulcans and their space elvish language, >>>> But the Vulcans of Star Trek do NOT exist. >>> True, and he didn't say they actually exist, but even if they did, >>> there >>> would be no reason to suppose they must speak a logical language >>> (such as >>> Lojban). We know just enough about Star Trek Vulcan culture, physiology >>> and psychology to know that they are not so different from us: they are >>> not logical by nature, but rather by long and arduous training. It may >>> very well be that those Vulcans who are deepest in the art of logic use >>> some kind of loglang as a second language; but I'd doubt that such a >>> beast >>> would be their cradle language. >>> >> We really don't have any info on the Vulcan language. As far as I know, >> there are only a few lines in the language, developed by Mark Okrand to >> match the mouth movements of the scene as performed in English. I'm sure >> people have analyzed that small bit of data quite thoroughly, but I >> doubt >> we'll see more of Vulcan language later on. >> >> >>> Within the ST universe, we also know that Romulans and Vulcans are very >>> close (if not identical) physiologically and they have a shared >>> history. >>> It would stand to reason that the basic nature of the Vulcan >>> language(s) >>> is more like that of the Romulans, barring some sort of radical purge. >> >> It is well-established and often stated that the Romulan and Vulcan >> languages are similar, so no purge. Probably both races speak some >> descendant of a language that existed before the split, which would >> in turn >> be at least a descendant of a language that existed before the Vulcans >> learned to suppress their emotions. Certainly such a language would be >> naturally evolved. >> >> >>>>> but I think real world Vulcans would either convert their natural >>>>> language to a loglan or write one from scratch. >>> They might very well do the latter. >> >> That would be very interesting to explore. I've noticed that as Star >> Trek >> went on Vulcan Logic became less a rationalist ideology and more of a >> religion of sorts. Vulcans always did have incorrect or unusual >> ideas as >> to what was "logical" (look up the "Straw Vulcan" trope), and as their >> culture got fleshed out through the decades with rituals and >> mythology it >> seems more and more that Vulcan Logic is very dogmatic and is revered >> in a >> way that seems quite religious. >> >> As such, it's hard to predict what they would do. Would they decide >> that >> the "logical" course of action would be to keep their own language, just >> out of pure pragmatism? Would they iron out some irregularities and be >> done with it? Or would the priesthood develop a loglang for themselves? >> Lots of interesting questions that we, unfortunately, can't answer, >> since >> none of us get paid by Paramount to write about Vulcans.