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I said that /y/ whether from υ υι or οι merged with /u/ rather than /i/,
not that they preserved ancient /u/. Only Tsakonian did that.
Palatalization before */y/ indeed proves that it had been a front vowel but
it does *not* prove a */ju/ stage. Swedish and Norwegian [y] caused
palatalization of velars but remained [y] to this day. Also I've never seen
mentioned that those Greek dialect showed e.g. initial /ju/ from */y/.
Front vowels can be simply retracted. It happened e.g. in some dialects of
Emglish. "Cudgel" is a dialect form of OE "cycgel" which found its way into
standard English.

/bpj


Den måndagen den 11:e februari 2013 skrev R A Brown:

> On 11/02/2013 10:54, BPJ wrote:
>
>> Interestingly there is evidence that there were some
>> dialects of modern Greek, one of them that of Athens,
>> where /y/ of whaever origin merged with /u/ instead of
>> /i/ but apparently they all went extinct with the influx
>> of eastern Greek refugees early in the 20th century.
>>
>
> Are you sure?
>
> There were (still are?) some dialects which _apparently_ showed /u/ for
> ancient /y/; but they also showed _palatalization_ before the /u/, unlike
> before /u/ inherited from the ancient ου (ou).  This must show a change of
> /y/ to /ju/, which is not an uncommon one.
>
> --
> Ray
> ==============================**====
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com <http://www.carolandray.plus.com>
> ==============================**====
> "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
> for individual beings and events."
> [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
>