as always, Elena said what I was just about to say. With documentary _and_ - let's say - semantic markup build upon text as linguistic code you _must_ end up in the realm of overlap. So the question is not about allowing <rs> in <line> etc. because this would not help you when the string crosses the line boundaries. It's about how to deal with the overlap. So if I had the problem - which I very likely would have since for certain types of material I would start with documentary markup _and_ would want to enrich that further and further on the interpretational road (and I surely would _not_ want to double the text! Hey, we're using TEI to have a _single_ source, right?) - I'd check for the known solutions to the problem: LMNL, milestones, stand-off ...
But the basic problem still is: If you want to use XML and you have multiple hierarchies ...

Yeah, I know, all known ..., have a lovely Sunday, Patrick


Am 23.11.2013 12:03, schrieb Pierazzo, Elena:
[log in to unmask]" type="cite">
Hi All,

Documentary editing was kept very simple because of the potential of overlapping, mostly. If your lines are not empty elements, but defined boundary, the elements such <rs> <name> <date> and the like were very 'dangerous' as the chances of overlapping are simply too big. I recollect Sebastian remark when we ere discussing what to allow and we agree that is someone is suicidal and want these element we should not provide him/her with rope, or not too much of it. In the end we reached a compromise: we allowed <seg> in order to allow some suicidal person to mark these phenomena. Out of the joke, if you think we should change things and allow more stuff, please add a feature request, but be aware of the risk of allowing that. At a certain point we thought of making all elements available within <line> and <zone> spannable, i.e. making them stand-off on the model of <addSpan/> and <delSpan/>, but this proved to be too much and impra!
 ctical.

As mentioned the discussions were more pragmatic than theoretical (and I'm one of the people that does not acknowledge the distinction between purely documentary versus interpretative encoding that Gerrit mentioned, and proudly so), so I think a proposal to include new elements within the documentary should also include also a practical solution to the overlapping problem.

Best
Elena


On 22 Nov 2013, at 18:03, Roberto Rosselli Del Turco <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Il 22/11/2013 18:56, Lavrentev Alexey ha scritto:
le 22/11/2013 18:19 Selon Roberto Rosselli Del Turco:
Actually you're not forced to do that: <line> allows for marking words
using <w>, which lets you include <name>s inside itself (and <rs>s as
well). So if you only want to markup a handful of <name>s inside
<line>s you can do that already within the scope of <sourceDoc> and
without needing any custom element.
I don't think you can use <name> inside <w> (cf.
http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-w.html), but you
surely can inside <seg>.
However, it still looks like an "abusive workaround " (to quote Gerrit).

I understand that having <text> along with <sourceDesc> (and hence
duplicating the transcription) just to be able to mark up some names or
dates does not look like an optimal solution. So I would support
Gerrit's idea to make the content model of <line> less restrictive (e.g.
allow more elements from the phrase model
http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-model.phrase.html).
Whoops, my bad, was looking on the wrong table! I guess it's the day of the hasty answers XD

Well at least you have <seg>, which means you *can* mark some names in a relatively hassle-free manner.

R

-- 

Roberto Rosselli Del Turco      roberto.rossellidelturco at unito.it
Dipartimento di Studi           rosselli at ling.unipi.it
Umanistici                      Then spoke the thunder  DA
Universita' di Torino           Datta: what have we given?  (TSE)

Hige sceal the heardra,     heorte the cenre,
mod sceal the mare,       the ure maegen litlath.  (Maldon 312-3)
--
Dr Elena Pierazzo
Lecturer in Digital Humanities
Department in Digital Humanities
King's College London
26-29 Drury Lane
London WC2B 5RL

Phone: 0207-848-1949
Fax: 0207-848-2980
[log in to unmask]
www.kcl.ac.uk/ddh 



--

Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH) (Substitute, Professorship on Digital Humanities)
Institute for Documentology and Scholarly Editing (Managing Director)

Postal: Cologne Center for eHumanities (CCeH), Universität zu Köln, Albertus-Magnus-Platz, D-50923 Köln
Office: Universitätsstr. 22, Attic floor right
Telephone: +49 - (0)221 - 470 3894
Latest Publication: Patrick Sahle, Digitale Editionsformen - http://www.i-d-e.de/schriften/s7-9-digitale-editionsformen
Further information: http://www.uni-koeln.de/~ahz26