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Thanks for all the answers. As I thought, it is a rather controversial
matter. I also like to keep things clean, and we do so on a whole with our
documentary markup, which is used to produce diplomatic transcriptions on
the web. But at the same time we want to enable users to make selections of
documents which are referring to certain names or persons. We managed to
keep most of the other selective information within the header so far, but
tend to deviate from the path of documentary virtue by including <rs> in our
markup, following Gerrits notion that some elements of a more
'interpretative' encoding don't necessarily spoil the idea of documentary
markup.

I see Elenas argument concerning the dangers of overlapping structures and I
don't have a solution except making all elements spannable, as Elena
mentioned, which is clearly an overhead. But I'll make it a feature request
anyway. In the end you have to assume some responsibility for your own
markup, and if you want to actually mix documentary with rather
'interpretative' markup, then you have to consider overlap problems in the
first place.

Best
Oliver




-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von Pierazzo, Elena
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. November 2013 12:03
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: [TEI-L] Using <rs> in documentary markup

Hi All,

Documentary editing was kept very simple because of the potential of
overlapping, mostly. If your lines are not empty elements, but defined
boundary, the elements such <rs> <name> <date> and the like were very
'dangerous' as the chances of overlapping are simply too big. I recollect
Sebastian remark when we ere discussing what to allow and we agree that is
someone is suicidal and want these element we should not provide him/her
with rope, or not too much of it. In the end we reached a compromise: we
allowed <seg> in order to allow some suicidal person to mark these
phenomena. Out of the joke, if you think we should change things and allow
more stuff, please add a feature request, but be aware of the risk of
allowing that. At a certain point we thought of making all elements
available within <line> and <zone> spannable, i.e. making them stand-off on
the model of <addSpan/> and <delSpan/>, but this proved to be too much and
impractical.

As mentioned the discussions were more pragmatic than theoretical (and I'm
one of the people that does not acknowledge the distinction between purely
documentary versus interpretative encoding that Gerrit mentioned, and
proudly so), so I think a proposal to include new elements within the
documentary should also include also a practical solution to the overlapping
problem.

Best
Elena


On 22 Nov 2013, at 18:03, Roberto Rosselli Del Turco
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Il 22/11/2013 18:56, Lavrentev Alexey ha scritto:
>> le 22/11/2013 18:19 Selon Roberto Rosselli Del Turco:
>>> Actually you're not forced to do that: <line> allows for marking words
>>> using <w>, which lets you include <name>s inside itself (and <rs>s as
>>> well). So if you only want to markup a handful of <name>s inside
>>> <line>s you can do that already within the scope of <sourceDoc> and
>>> without needing any custom element.
>> I don't think you can use <name> inside <w> (cf.
>> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-w.html), but you
>> surely can inside <seg>.
>> However, it still looks like an "abusive workaround " (to quote Gerrit).
>> 
>> I understand that having <text> along with <sourceDesc> (and hence
>> duplicating the transcription) just to be able to mark up some names or
>> dates does not look like an optimal solution. So I would support
>> Gerrit's idea to make the content model of <line> less restrictive (e.g.
>> allow more elements from the phrase model
>>
http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-model.phrase.html).
> 
> Whoops, my bad, was looking on the wrong table! I guess it's the day of
the hasty answers XD
> 
> Well at least you have <seg>, which means you *can* mark some names in a
relatively hassle-free manner.
> 
> R
> 
> -- 
> 
> Roberto Rosselli Del Turco      roberto.rossellidelturco at unito.it
> Dipartimento di Studi           rosselli at ling.unipi.it
> Umanistici                      Then spoke the thunder  DA
> Universita' di Torino           Datta: what have we given?  (TSE)
> 
> Hige sceal the heardra,     heorte the cenre,
> mod sceal the mare,       the ure maegen litlath.  (Maldon 312-3)

--
Dr Elena Pierazzo
Lecturer in Digital Humanities
Department in Digital Humanities
King's College London
26-29 Drury Lane
London WC2B 5RL

Phone: 0207-848-1949
Fax: 0207-848-2980
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www.kcl.ac.uk/ddh