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Flubbed the reply to. :/

Adam

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:37:07 -0600
Subject: Re: Iberian Gothic
To: Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Okay, I'm replying from my phone, so I can't snip to the appropriate
parts. That said, I find myself disagreeing with Padraic this time
(though I very often find myself agreeing). I don't at all like the
buffetlang image and find it wholly inappropriate to the task.
HOWEVER, your use of the word chimera makes me think that therin might
lie the perfect word for these beasties -- chimeralangs. That us
rather what they are Latin disguised as Polish or German or Welsh
through the uniting of two disparate animals. What say the group?

Adam

On 1/5/14, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>>>>  I call them "buffetlangs". Starting with the empty
>>>>  plate of the newly inaugurated conlang project, you
>>>>  just put a scoop from here and a heap from there until
>>>>  done and pretty soon you have a right mess. Whether
>>>>  it's a conlang or actual food in a cafeteria!
>> [snip]
>>
>>>
>>>  That seems to describe the wrong sort of thing to me- an
>>>  art-pidgin or art-creole. Bogolangs are a very specific
>>>  kind of mixture.
>>
>> Yep - the "buffetlang" approach has certainly been adopted
>> (and why not?), but IMO it is not appropriate for _bogolang_
>> which, as Logan points out, is not picking a bit from here,
>> there and everywhere; it is specifically grafting one
>> phonological development onto the base of another.
>
> The point being, picking and choosing is being done. Whether, like
> many children at a buffet, you pick only one or two items, or a whole lot is
> really quite beside the point. The fact remains, the maker of a bogo / graft
>  / whatever language has chosen two particular items from the
> buffet: a substrate language (usually, in these cases, "Latin" (loosely
> applied)) and a modifying ingredient from a locally displaced language (in
> all these cases, a system of more or less ill applied sound changes). He has
> then rather indiscriminately mixed these unlikely ingredients on his plate
> and
> has produced a nifty conlang therefrom.
>
> Call em what you will. Buffet simply struck me as an entirely appropriate
> and rather less than insulting metaphor for what's actually happening. To
> me, grafting implies a much more scientific approach. (Which, I certainly
> think could certainly be done, though I would hold that the result would be
> a pidgin > creole rather than a chimera).
>
> I'm not aware of any natural language that has had a completely alien
> system of diachronic phonology grafted onto it at some time in its past,
> and then has continued with that alien system incorporated within itself.
> Hm.
> Who knows? Maybe "bogus" isn't that bad of a fit after all?
>
> Padraic
>