On 27/03/2014 09:38, taliesin the storyteller wrote: > IMHO, if you're artlanging, "Bretaineis" looks more > exotic, less French and more rare than "Bretainois". With > the latter I think: "pseudo-French". With the former I > think: "whoa, what's this?" and... On 27/03/2014 20:21, Alex Fink wrote: > On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 14:25:09 +0000, R A Brown wrote: [snip] >>> Yes, i was told that if I adopted _Bretainois_ people >>> would pronounce it /brətenwa/ :( > > I would be aghast if you let that kind of consideration > influence BART-internal decisions. Yes, it's very frustrating. People see 'Brithenig' and think "That looks pseudo-Welsh - that's interesting" - but 'Britainois' evokes "That looks pseudo-French - how boring." Dress up a Romance language so it superficially looks like something else (Welsh, Irish, Polish or whatever), it looks interesting; but if it actually looks like a Romance language, then it's boring. > Perhaps this calls for the name of Bretainois in English > to be different to the name of Bretainois in Bretainois > -- it certainly wouldn't be the first language to exhibit > such a difference. Which is why I've used 'Bretainese' in a recent email or two. ======================================================= On 27/03/2014 21:06, And Rosta wrote: > Alex Fink, On 27/03/2014 20:21: [snip] >> In English, spelling it in _-oys_ would dispel the >> superficial (modern-)Frenchness and suggest /ojz/ >> better. > > Better to spell it the way it is properly spelt... Yes. _If_ the name turns out to _Bretainois_ (and that's not certain at the moment), then I would not go along with respelling it _Bretainoys_ so it won't be mistaken for French. > But I liked Ray's idea of calling the extrafictional > conlang "Brittaniensis", to make it easier to fiddle with > the intrafictional name. Or else a plainly English > "Britannese" or suchlike. > > Of course in BART there is no English, a most dolorous > circumstance to me, but that didn't stop me wondering > what the English for "Brittaniensis" would be, had they > coexisted. "Britench" is my first attempt at an answer. Let's see. the English derivative from Late Latin _Brittania_ is "Brittany". So I'd guess a derivative from *Brittaniensis would be 'Brittanese.' The French derivative from _Brittania_ is "Bretagne"; and the French for *Brittaniensis is, indeed, _bretagnois_ - which is an actual French adjective, tho it does not applied to the Celtic language of Brittany. On reflexion forms like "Bretainese" are hybrids that will not actually exist in any language. Perhaps either the Latin *Brittaniensis or anglicized *Brittanese will do for the moment. -- Ray ================================== http://www.carolandray.plus.com ================================== "Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt, wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun." [J.G. Hamann, 1760] "A mind that thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language".