How does one not receive everything in email? I would rather see messages on the list site. Thank you for advice. On Friday, March 28, 2014 5:59 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote: On 27/03/2014 16:34, Puey McCleary wrote: > We know that the history of BART is more or less going > to be similar to our own. So, no steampunk zeppelins > going to the Moon. Sorry about that ;) > That's good because I've always been bad at history. ... and I get sort of confused with alternate histories :) I vaguely recall that Abraham Lincoln used > rocket-pants to defeat Napoleon, but I may be > mis-remembering a lot of things. But we do know that > BART has Bretainois, and, by its merest existence, there > will be changes to art and literature, perhaps small > ones, which, in turn, will eventually cause changes to > Bretainois itself down the road, depending how far down > the future we get to see Bretainois. Spot on - I sort of hinted at this: http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Britannic/preliminary.html#ML_in_BART But you've done a better job. > Off the top of my head, here are just a few. > > 1. No Beowulf. Or at least no Beowulf like we have it. > Perhaps some legends may be recorded about him in Old > Bretainois, but I wouldn't expect a Hwaet or two, and > this is going to have some influence in the 19th century Sorry - no Beowulf. Obviously Romanic Britain will have its own literature, but I don't see anything resembling Beowulf is going to come about. > ... Anyway, at the very least, no Tyr's Day, Woden's > Day, or Thor's Day, of course. What will Stan Lee do? But you'll still have Mars' Day, Mercury's Day and Jove's Day :) Many names will be different :) > 2. What about Chaucer? Okay, I'm assuming that nobody > in our world exists after the point of divergence. So, > is there going to be an analogue to Chaucer, who > essentially rewrites bits of the Decameron in Bretainois? > Perhaps Other Chaucer's work ends up being so influential > that it becomes the standard of literature on the > Continent ... No reason why we can't have a similar poet - except he'll be writing in late Middle Bretainois ;) > 3. No Arthurian Mythology. That's really going to mess > up art history down the line. No Arthur - but the bits that went to make the Arthurian legends have many sources, so I expect them still to be there in some form or other. I'm sure they'll be legends about the Holy Grail. Some scholars, e.g., think the genesis of the Tristan & Isolde story comes from Persia. I'm sure there'll be not dissimilar legends around. > 4. What about an Other Shakespeare? Will there even be > Elizabethan plays as we recognize them? True, they take > their influences from lots of Continental stuff, but > still ... will there be iambic pentameter? Will there > be a genius credited with creating lots of words? We'll have our Shakespeare. But his surname will be different - probably something that he didn't misspell so often ;) > 5. Will there be the equivalent of a King James Bible / > Douay Rheims version? Well, yes, since the rest of > history is more or less the same ... but the text of our > King James Bible had a profound influence on English ... Yes. Whether there's a reformation or not, there would sooner or later be a Bretainois Bible. How much influence it will have on the language, I don't know. > 6. What about Volapük? Will Father Schleyer combine > German and Bretainois together? Good point. If Bretainois more or less takes the place of English in our own world, I guess Fr Schleyer will be doing just what you say :) > How will Other Esperanto develop? I'm assuming that > Outidic belongs in a different universe ... I don't think Esperanto will be substantially different. Obviously words like _birdo_ and _fajro_ will no longer exist - but I don't think that will radically change the language ;) As Dr Outis slipped beneath the radar in our own timeline, he could do that just the same in BART ;) > 7. Did I mention that art history is going to be > altered a bit? Will the pre-Raphaelites be painting > more Romanish images since they don't have Arthurian > stuff? As i say, I'm sure there'll be equivalent medieval legends - Tristan, Isolde, Parsifal/ Percival and all the rest - just no Arthur :0 > What about an other William Morris? We're starting to > get into the realm of architecture here ... > > 8. Also, names are all going to be different. They will. > Save for the names borrowed from other places ...which in > turn are going to be influenced by an extra Romance > language at their doorstep. Oh my gosh, this is going to > get complicated. :-) > 9. So I take it that Modern Bretainois is going to be > exported to colonies all around the world ... does that > mean that Astronauts from the Americas were speaking > Bretainois on the Moon in the 20th century? Yep. > 10. Over time, lots of little literary and languages > changes will affect ... well, lots and lots of stories. > What puns will Other Lewis Carroll tell in Bretainois? He'll manage. French is a great language for puns. So I don't see we won't be able to manage puns in Bretainois. > Will other Baum even write his Oz books? Why not? > Without an Anglo-Saxon past, will other Tolkien even > write The Lord of the Rings? How would the Westron names > even be rendered? Yes, Tolkien will be different for many reasons. But I'm sure the BART Tolkien will manage ;) > Will we ever get an Other Lewis to write Narnia stories? > Is Narnia's secret language ... Bretainois!?!?!? I don't see why Narnia stories couldn't be written in Bretainois. > These are the type of things that are going to keep me > up late tonight. While I stay up late wrestling with linguistic problems. Someone should do us both a favor and find a worm-hole though to BART ;) -- Ray ================================== http://www.carolandray.plus.com ================================== "Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt, wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun." [J.G. Hamann, 1760] "A mind that thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language".