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How does one not receive everything in email? I would rather see messages on the list site. Thank you for advice. 


On Friday, March 28, 2014 5:59 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
 
On 27/03/2014 16:34, Puey McCleary wrote:
> We know that the history of BART is more or less going
> to be similar to our own.† So, no steampunk zeppelins
> going to the Moon.

Sorry about that†  ;)

> That's good because I've always been bad at history.

... and I get sort of confused with alternate histories† † :)

† I vaguely recall that Abraham Lincoln used
> rocket-pants to defeat Napoleon, but I may be
> mis-remembering a lot of things.† But we do know that
> BART has Bretainois, and, by its merest existence, there
> will be changes to art and literature, perhaps small
> ones, which, in turn, will eventually cause changes to
> Bretainois itself down the road, depending how far down
> the future we get to see Bretainois.

Spot on - I sort of hinted at this:
http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Britannic/preliminary.html#ML_in_BART

But you've done a better job.

> Off the top of my head, here are just a few.
>
> 1.† No Beowulf.† Or at least no Beowulf like we have it.
> Perhaps some legends may be recorded about him in Old
> Bretainois, but I wouldn't expect a Hwaet or two, and
> this is going to have some influence in the 19th century

Sorry - no Beowulf.† Obviously Romanic Britain will have its
own literature, but I don't see anything resembling Beowulf
is going to come about.

> ...† Anyway, at the very least, no Tyr's Day, Woden's
> Day, or Thor's Day, of course.† What will Stan Lee do?

But you'll still have Mars' Day, Mercury's Day and Jove's
Day†  :)

Many names will be different†  :)

> 2.† What about Chaucer?† Okay, I'm assuming that nobody
> in our world exists after the point of divergence.† So,
> is there going to be an analogue to Chaucer, who
> essentially rewrites bits of the Decameron in Bretainois?
> Perhaps Other Chaucer's work ends up being so influential
> that it becomes the standard of literature on the
> Continent ...

No reason why we can't have a similar poet - except he'll be
writing in late Middle Bretainois† †  ;)

> 3.† No Arthurian Mythology.† That's really going to mess
> up art history down the line.

No Arthur - but the bits that went to make the Arthurian
legends have many sources, so I expect them still to be
there in some form or other.† I'm sure they'll be legends
about the Holy Grail.† Some scholars, e.g., think the
genesis of the Tristan & Isolde story comes from Persia.

I'm sure there'll be not dissimilar legends around.

> 4.† What about an Other Shakespeare?† Will there even be
> Elizabethan plays as we recognize them?† True, they take
> their influences from lots of Continental stuff, but
> still ... will there be iambic pentameter?† Will there
> be a genius credited with creating lots of words?

We'll have our Shakespeare.† But his surname will be
different - probably something that he didn't misspell so
often†  ;)

> 5.† Will there be the equivalent of a King James Bible /
> Douay Rheims version?† Well, yes, since the rest of
> history is more or less the same ... but the text of our
> King James Bible had a profound influence on English ...

Yes.† Whether there's a reformation or not, there would
sooner or later be a Bretainois Bible.† How much influence
it will have on the language, I don't know.

> 6.† What about VolapŁk?† Will Father Schleyer combine
> German and Bretainois together?

Good point.† If Bretainois more or less takes the place of
English in our own world, I guess Fr Schleyer will be doing
just what you say†  :)

> How will Other Esperanto develop?† I'm assuming that
> Outidic belongs in a different universe ...

I don't think Esperanto will be substantially different.
Obviously words like _birdo_ and _fajro_ will no longer
exist - but I don't think that will radically change the
language† † ;)

As Dr Outis slipped beneath the radar in our own timeline,
he could do that just the same in BART† † ;)

> 7.† Did I mention that art history is going to be
> altered a bit?† Will the pre-Raphaelites be painting
> more Romanish images since they don't have Arthurian
> stuff?

As i say, I'm sure there'll be equivalent medieval legends -
Tristan, Isolde, Parsifal/ Percival and all the rest - just
no Arthur†  :0

> What about an other William Morris?† We're starting to
> get into the realm of architecture here ...
>
> 8.† Also, names are all going to be different.

They will.

> Save for the names borrowed from other places ...which in
> turn are going to be influenced by an extra Romance
> language at their doorstep.† Oh my gosh, this is going to
> get complicated.

††† :-)

> 9.† So I take it that Modern Bretainois is going to be
> exported to colonies all around the world ... does that
> mean that Astronauts from the Americas were speaking
> Bretainois on the Moon in the 20th century?

Yep.

> 10.† Over time, lots of little literary and languages
> changes will affect ... well, lots and lots of stories.
> What puns will Other Lewis Carroll tell in Bretainois?

He'll manage.† French is a great language for puns. So I
don't see we won't be able to manage puns in Bretainois.

> Will other Baum even write his Oz books?

Why not?

> Without an Anglo-Saxon past, will other Tolkien even
> write The Lord of the Rings?† How would the Westron names
> even be rendered?

Yes, Tolkien will be different for many reasons.† But I'm
sure the BART Tolkien will manage† ;)

> Will we ever get an Other Lewis to write Narnia stories?
> Is Narnia's secret language ... Bretainois!?!?!?

I don't see why Narnia stories couldn't be written in

Bretainois.

> These are the type of things that are going to keep me
> up late tonight.

While I stay up late wrestling with linguistic problems.
Someone should do us both a favor and find a worm-hole
though to BART†  ;)

-- 
Ray
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"Ein Kopf, der auf seine eigene Kosten denkt,
wird immer Eingriffe in die Sprache thun."
[J.G. Hamann, 1760]
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