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Can't argue with any of that... This may surprise many of you!

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Mar 2014, at 12:03, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> 2014-03-25 10:11, Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones skrev:
>> There are Brits who would strenuously deny that they pronounce "tower" and "tar" virtually, if not absolutely, the same even though some of them do. I'm not sure what "creaky voice/vocal fry" refer to but, if I'm right, I know at least one Finn who uses it in Finnish but not in English. I don't find it objectionable.
> 
> I'm not American, or even a native English speaker, but...
> 
> I frequently encounter people -- mostly young women -- who hold
> their own speech, and as a consequence often themselves, in low
> esteem. I point out to them that linguistic prejudice and
> discrimination are, unlike most other forms of prejudice and
> discrimination, not only still legal but even enforced.
> 
> When I went to speech therapists as a kid they used an enormous
> amount of time and energy to 'correct' dialect and glottal
> onsets, as if those were the greatest speech problems kids with
> cerebral palsy have! As an adult I pointed this out to my
> phonetics professor (who taught speech therapists), and to my
> lasting horror he, a well-educated phonetician, defended the
> notion that the glottal stops used in 'glottal onset' by some
> Swedish speakers may somehow be different from those being
> phonemes in Arabic and Tibetan, and hence harmful for the vocal
> chords! I'm still shocked, 20+ years later, at encountering such
> an attitude in a phonetician!
> 
> My **feelings** about having to listen to certain accents of the
> languages I know -- and in at least one case the whole language
> --, or closer to home to my daughters breaking up consonant
> clusters like the ones in _två, tre_ 'two, three' with a schwa is
> not always as informed as my theoretical stance, but at least I
> know that it's me being unreasonable. I've even caught myself
> saying [tʰɵˈvoː tʰəˈɻeː], though I don't do it all the time. I'm
> sure in a couple hundred years time they will be spelled _tuvå,
> teré_, which will be very good for those living then, even though
> it would *now* make me in my professional role as editor do a
> mental backwards somersault!
> 
>> My 2p
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 25 Mar 2014, at 00:46, Larry Sulky <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> As a Canadian-American, I am all too aware of vocal fry on both sides of
>>> the border and am mightily thankful that neither my daughter nor my son
>>> (both in their twenties) use it. I have a few American colleagues who do
>>> and it begins to grate in approximately 1 minute and 44 seconds. I can
>>> therefore guarantee that I will not be adopting this feature, ever, ever,
>>> ever.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 24 March 2014 20:38, Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I've been reading some articles about "vocal fry" or "creaky voice"
>>>> becoming a distinctive feature of American accent, more pronounced in young
>>>> females but not limited to them. I wonder if you Americans of this list
>>>> have already adopted this feature.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://news.sciencemag.org/social-sciences/2011/12/vocal-fry-creeping-u.s.-speech
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.thewire.com/national/2011/12/vocal-fry-isnt-just-college-girls/46063/
>>>> http://americanspeech.dukejournals.org/content/85/3/315
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2013/01/lexicon_valley_on_creaky_voice_or_vocal_fry_in_young_american_women.html
>>>> 
>>>> Até mais!
>>>> 
>>>> Leonardo
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day I
>>> can hear her breathing. -- Arundhati Roy*
>>