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2014-07-29 14:41 GMT+04:00 Logan Streondj <[log in to unmask]>:

> > > For instance I looked at some of the new entries to jbovlaste,
> > > and there are new gismu, which is impressive,
> > > however the one I checked only had a german definition.
> > >
> > Then translate it to other languages. Not all of us speak more than even
> 6
> > most spoken languages.
>
> point is in mkaw the definition would be in mkaw,
> thus easily auto-translated to other languages.
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "slots" or place-ment based information,
> > > > > is very limited in most langauges.
> > > > > typically just 3 tops.
> > > > > I gave sam coffee.
> > > > > notably different from the Lojban dunda which would make it I gave
> > > coffee
> > > > > sam .
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > "A gave coffee to Sam."
> > > er technically that only uses 2 slots,
> > > or placement grammar based places,
> > > the third is a prepositional case.
> > >
> > > > English has up to 4 slots.
> > >
> > > You'd have to demonstrate an example.
> > >
> >
> > I bet you a buck you won't believe me.
>
> hmmm, I seem to recall this from somewhere.
> so that would be
> subject, indirect-object/dative, direct-object, ? seems like a subordinate
> clause of bet to me.
>

Seems like a 4-place predicate. That's all. One might add the the  4th
place contains abstraction type variable.

>
>
>
> > Thus it is an illusion that there can be a simple language. The correct
> > term is : underspecified language.
>
> that would lump a lot of world languages as "underspecified".
> perhaps in comparison to Lojban, since it is a relative term.
>

Ofc, they are still working on formalised syntax of english in minimalistic
theory. However, there is a parser of English, it just needs to be worked
on.

>
>
>
> > > People often use for in order to convey causation,
> > > rather than simply beneficiaries.
> > >
> >
> > Chinese is the best example of NOT using "gei" for causation. Or may be
> for
> > you dative is not "gei" in Chinese then what?
>
> sure dative can be 給 in Chinese or gei in Mandarin.
> it's actually a good thing that they have a different word for causation.
> 使 is cause
> 為 is for
> allows for greater clarity.
>
>
> as I said:
> > > It really depends on how clear the person wants to be.
> people can be ambigious if they want to be,
> cuz I'm not gonna stop them.
>

>
> > Jbovlaste is a live database. The whole information of how you can
> > contribute is stored on the website (which is still lojban.org although
> a
> > transfer to mw.lojban.org is under way.)
> > Here is the page of how you can contribute:
> > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/How+You+Can+Help
> >
> > It explicitly states that you can use jbovlaste.
>
> that's good.
>
>
> > > The point of mkaw translation is to increase diversity of expression.
> > > Unlike with statistical analysis translations,
> > > people can say new and unusual things.
> > > Their words are translated precisely,
> > > rather than what they may or may not have meant.
> > >
> >
> > I see. I won't comment on this.
>
> oh .uinai
>

Sorry, I got into this discussion only because I mostly reply when someone
mentions loglangs.
Now i see what you mean by "metalanguage" and why you are posting this in
Auxlang group. I think others have expressed solid opinions on your project.
I won't add to that.


>
>
> > >
> > Now I understand how it is implemented.  Thanks for clarification.
> >
> .ui
> what do you think of it?
>
> >
> > Nominative is not always=ergative (see Wikipedia).
>
> agent is the most important for mkaw.
>
Agent is not nominative. Ergative is usually {gau} in Lojban.


> >
> >
> > > , ri'i (patient/object/accusative)
> >
> >
> > The same for accusative.
> >
>
> patient most important.
>
>
> >
> > > , seka'a (to dative),
> > >  pu'e (by instrumental)
> >
> > rather {sepi'o}. Instrumental is one of the few relatively monosemic
> cases
> > although it often overlaps with comitative in SAE languages.
> >
> > , ra'i (from ablative), sedi'o (at locative)
> >
> > rather a more  vague {bu'u}.
> >
> > ,  doi (yo vocative)
> > >
> >
> > You can say {mi cusku fa'a do} as "I say to you" . This would be that
> > "diversity" of expression you mentioned with prepositions instead of
> fixed
> > slots.
> >
> >
> > > some useful extras:
> > > ji'e (until), ri'a (cause), seva'u (for beneficiary)
> > > ja'e (so)
> > >
> >
> > also {tai}.
> >
> > >
> > > and even found some aspects:
> > > ca'o (imperfective) .uo (perfective)
> > >
> > If by perfective you mean Chinese "le" and Russian совершенный вид then
> it
> > is rather {co'i}. Imperfective is {co'inai}. Progressive is {ca'o}.
> > The interjection {.uo} is what is "voilà" in French.
> >
> co'i good for perfective.
> ca'o still prefrece of imperfective being the most generic form.
>

Progressive and imperfective are different aspects.