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On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, at 02:45, Matija Ogrin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I ask for advice, related to this interesting thread from 2013. The last 
> posts propose to use 'anonymous block' <ab> for Bible verses, e.g.:
> 
> <p>
>     <ab type="verse" n="3">And God said, Let there be light: and there 
> was light.</ab> <!-- ... -->
> </p>
> 
> The other type of solution that appears in some biblical projects relies 
> on <milestone>, e.g.:
> 
> <p>
>     <milestone unit="verse" n="3"/>And God said, Let there be light: and 
> there was light. <!-- ... -->
> </p>
> 

I believe that for most people, most of the time,
the <ab> method is the easiest. The problem
with 'containing' each verse in an <ab> tag is
the usual problem of overlapping hierarchies,
including local (not systemically present) structural tags.

The commonest alternative structure is poetry,
and the <ab> method can usually handle that, since <ab>
can contain <l> (note that <div> would work just 
as well as <ab> here, and perhaps better):

<div type="book" n="Psalms">
   <div type="chapter" n="24">
       <ab type="verse" n="1">
          <l>The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,</l>
          <l>the world, and all who live in it;</l>
       </ab>
       <ab type="verse" n="2">
          <l>for he founded it on the seas</l>
          <l>and established it on the waters.</l>
       </ab>
    </div>
</div>

But there are certainly alternative structures that
coexist only uneasily with <ab> (or even with
<div>). Quotations, for example,  may begin in the
middle of one verse and end in the middle, or at
the end, of another. If you are capturing those
as <quote> or <q> you would need either to break the
<ab> or break the <quote>. This for example, is
VERY illegal:

<ab n="4" type="verse">
As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:
<quote>
<l>A voice of one calling in the wilderness,</l>
  <q><lg>
        <l>Prepare the way for the Lord,</l>
        <l>make straight paths for him.</l>
        </lg>
</ab>
<ab n="5" type="verse"> 
        <lg>
        <l>Every valley shall be filled in,</l>
        <l>every mountain and hill made low.</l>
        </lg>
        <lg>
        <l>The crooked roads shall become straight,</l>
        <l>the rough ways smooth.</l>
        </lg>
        </q>
</ab>
<ab n="6" type="verse">
        <l>And all people will see God’s salvation.</l>
     </q>
   </quote>
</ab>

A somewhat easier circumstance is that posed by so-called
"paragraph" bibles -- those that impose a paragraph structure
on the text independent of the verse numbering, eg.

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product_slideshow?sku=190633&actual_sku=190633&slide=2

You can usually accommodate this formatting by capturing
the paragraphs as <div type="paragraph"> (you cannot use <p>
because <p> cannot contain <ab>). But even so, there may be
verses *split* between the paragraphs.

Linguistic tagging, too, (<s> and so forth) may try to cross
boundaries between <ab>s. So if you are planning to mark up
any of these alternative structures, especially if they are common,
then the <milestone> method may be the easier choice for you.

pfs

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015, at 02:45, Matija Ogrin wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I ask for advice, related to this interesting thread from 2013. The last 
> posts propose to use 'anonymous block' <ab> for Bible verses, e.g.:
> 
> <p>
>     <ab type="verse" n="3">And God said, Let there be light: and there 
> was light.</ab> <!-- ... -->
> </p>
> 
> The other type of solution that appears in some biblical projects relies 
> on <milestone>, e.g.:
> 
> <p>
>     <milestone unit="verse" n="3"/>And God said, Let there be light: and 
> there was light. <!-- ... -->
> </p>
> 
> The first approach is based on "container-elements", the second on 
> "delimiters". As my colleagues start to prepare an edition of the oldest 
> Slovenian Bible in TEI, we wish to ask what are the possible 
> (dis)advantages of the two approaches, esp. from the point of view of
> 1 - possible overlapping hierarchies, and
> 2 - adding other translations as parallel apparatus.
> 
> <milestone>Plans are established by seeking advice :) Thank you,
> 
> Matija
> 
> 
> Dne 08. 11. 2013 ob 13:19 je Lou Burnard zapisal(a):
> > +1 from me. In fact, this use (and that of the First Folio) were the
> > main motivations for adding <ab> to the TEI!
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/13 12:08, James Cummings wrote:
> >> I'd definitely agree with Gabby (and Piotr) here. The canonical use
> >> for <ab> is in my mind bible verses. They are not metrical lines, they
> >> are not paragraphs. An 'anonymous block' is a good way to mark them.
> >>
> >> -James
> >>
> >> On 08/11/13 11:55, Gabriel Bodard wrote:
> >>> I think Piotr early in the last thread suggested `<ab>`, which
> >>> doesn't have the semantic baggage of `<p>`. I use it for almost
> >>> all groupings of sub-div-level text.
> >>>
> >>> On 2013-11-08 11:53, Christian Chiarcos wrote:
> >>>> Yet another (and probably stupid) question:
> >>>>
> >>>> what would be the most appropriate markup up an original Bible
> >>>> verse:
> >>>>
> >>>> - <l>: In fact, it can be said to be a line of verse, but this
> >>>> is not
> >>>> verse in the poetic sense (as apparently presupposed in TEI).
> >>>> In poetic
> >>>> renderings of the bible, the two definitions of verse would clash.
> >>>> - <p>: In modern editions, Bible verses are often written within a
> >>>> single paragraph, but this is not systematically the case.
> >>>> - <seg type="verse">: This was used in the old CES scheme. No
> >>>> longer
> >>>> possible in TEI because <seg> is not allowed as a child of <div>
> >>>> anymore, and marking chapter-level divs as <p> would be even more
> >>>> unjustified than using <p> for verses.
> >>>> - <span type="verse">: In a way it can be said that assigning a
> >>>> verse id
> >>>> "associates an interpretative annotation directly with a span
> >>>> of text"
> >>>> but I'm a little bit in doubt whether this really qualifies as an
> >>>> "interpretative annotation".
> >>>>
> >>>> Both <l> and <p> are problematic, because the units under
> >>>> consideration
> >>>> are not directly grounded in text structure but in traditional
> >>>> verse
> >>>> numbering (regardless of how manifested in the respective
> >>>> edition).
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now, I'm inclined to work with span, because it would be an
> >>>> isomorphic mapping from the old CES specs, but I might have
> >>>> overlooked
> >>>> some more suitable alternative.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any ideas?
> >>>> Christian
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matija Ogrin, dr.
> Neznani rokopisi slovenskega slovstva 17. in 18. stoletja (NRSS)
> <http://ezb.ijs.si/nrss/>
> Inštitut za slovensko literaturo in literarne vede
> ZRC SAZU
-- 
Paul Schaffner  Digital Library Production Service
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