I strongly disagree with the notion that syllables aren’t phonetically real! See the following paper: https://lirias.kuleuven.be/bitstream/123456789/389158/1/PMertens_1987_Edinburgh.pdf. There is even a Praat extension based on this, for automatically detecting syllables and intonation contours: http://bach.arts.kuleuven.be/pmertens/prosogram/. Siva > On 8 Aug 2015, at 9:39 pm, David McCann <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > On Sat, 8 Aug 2015 15:56:49 +0100 > R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> I give up. If syllables and their boundaries don't exist in >> the speech stream, then there can be no syllabic codas to >> shorted vowels or do anything else them. >> > A syllable is like a phoneme: it's a component of language, not a > physical object. As Ladefoged and Maddieson wrote, "There is no > phonetic parameter that can be used to define syllabicity in > articulatory or physiological terms." > > Obviously syllables are real, just like phonemes, but they are what in > philosophy would be called intelligibles. Their reality is obviously > demonstrated by the fact that native speakers can (with the occasional > uncertainty) identify them: hence syllabic scripts. They also affect > syllable-edge processes: in Dutch a syllable-final stop cannot be > voiced.