Print

Print


On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 11:52:56 +0100, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Just to be clear: Jeff's post is a clear example of the kind of discussion
>of 'auxy' languages which is ok. Not advocacy but grammar design. Moreover
>he states that it's a fictional auxlamg in an imaginary world. Thus a very
>regular artlang. Nothing wrong with them. I'm constantly struggling to make
>my artlangs more irregular. It ain't easy!

It _is_ hard to make things irregular without being arbitrary. In my experience, sound changes alone produce complexity, not actual irregularity. It's when analogy comes along to simplify things but misses some spots (usually the most often used words) that irregularity occurs. But analogy requires a reasonably large vocabulary, which I don't have at that stage.

--
Jeff

>lördag 14 november 2015 skrev Gleki Arxokuna <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> https://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A0=AUXLANG
>>
>> 2015-11-14 8:37 GMT+03:00 J S Jones <[log in to unmask] <javascript:;>>:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This project (Nov06) is an offshoot of XIAL, my newest auxlang version.
>> It
>> > began when I wanted to try a couple things that didn't belong in XIAL.
>> One
>> > of them was a particular morphological alignment. I couldn't decide which
>> > system of grammatical voice I wanted; it was desirable for finite verbs
>> to
>> > be accusative but for non-finite ones to be ergative (sort of). So I
>> > combined the systems in that manner:
>> >
>> > Non-    Finite          Grammatical
>> > finite  Intrans Transit Voice
>> > -(e)    -o      ...     passive
>> > -uu     -i      -a      active
>> > -ok     -oki    -oka    dative promoted
>> > -er     -eri    -era    instrumental promoted
>> > -az     -azi    -aza    locative promoted
>> > -au     -awi    -awa    temporal adverbial
>> > -in     ...     ...     action nominal
>> >
>> > The above system applies to all verbs except for the relationals, the
>> > impersonals, and a very small number of defective verbs.
>> >
>> > Originally, I tried to make a naturalistic version, with sound changes
>> > etc. After a few tries, I gave up on that and switched to an auxlang-type
>> > approach. I like it better and it doesn't obscure the interesting things.
>> > The lexicon is _a priori_, so I have a fictional auxlang set in a
>> currently
>> > unknown world.
>> >
>> > Once I changed the alignment, other things started to change.
>> > Intransitive-only verbs disappeared (except for the impersonals), as did
>> > English-type (etc.) ditransitives. For verbs such as "happy", the happy
>> > person is the patient while the agent is used as the trigger. Other
>> little
>> > changes kept occurring as I progressed through the grammar.
>> >
>> > One thing that hasn't changed is something already adopted in XIAL: index
>> > assignment determiners derived from the demonstrative determiners, with
>> the
>> > 2 sets of determiners sharing a set of corresponding pronouns. There may
>> > also be approaches parallel to my earlier projects. But I think it's
>> nicely
>> > different while being fairly simple.
>> >
>> > There are still parts of the grammar to be decided, such as the epistemic
>> > modals. And of course, the lexicon currently consists only of function
>> > words; I've used a few other words in the examples, but I'm not really
>> sure
>> > if they have cats, for instance.
>> >
>> > Questions or comments?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jeff
>> >
>>